Meldinger: 101
Språk: English
erinja (Å vise profilen) 2011 10 17 16:02:15
I belive it parses out as di/sin/ofer/o.
That is, a god offering himself as a sacrifice. It's an expression that's meaningful to Christians but probably not to adherents of any other religions I can think of.
Atonement generally involves saying you're sorry for whatever bad thing you do, not offering yourself as a sacrifice (and most people wouldn't consider themselves gods, though adherents of the Sathya Sai Organisation may disagree)
IvoG (Å vise profilen) 2011 10 17 18:38:52
what about "t.e/k.t.p."? "t.e."="tio estas"? (the Esperanto version of the English "i.e."?)..."k.t.p." - i'm pretty sure this means "etc." but i'm curious as to what exactly the abreviation means?
maybe "kaj tiel poste"? 
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2011 10 17 18:48:33
IvoG:what about "t.e/k.t.p."? "t.e."="tio estas"?Yes.
IvoG:Nearly: kaj tiel plu.
(the Esperanto version of the English "i.e."?)..."k.t.p." - i'm pretty sure this means "etc." but i'm curious as to what exactly the abreviation means?
IvoG (Å vise profilen) 2011 10 22 09:42:30
like for example in "Tio ne eblas" - i'd think it be "Tiu ne eblas" cos we are talking about something in particular - so we should use "tiu"...but i'm obviously wrong
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2011 10 22 09:57:05
IvoG:i need some help with the "u/o" (as in "io/iu;tio/tiu" etc.) distinction cos right now i'm pretty much guessing when should i use whatTio = that thing, that matter
like for example in "Tio ne eblas" - i'd think it be "Tiu ne eblas" cos we are talking about something in particular - so we should use "tiu"...but i'm obviously wrong
Tiu = that one, that person
You have to use tiu whenever it is followed by a substantive it refers to. Tiu libro is "that book". You also use it if the substantive is merely implied: Jes, mi diris, ke mi volas libron, sed ne tiun! (Here in English you’d say "that one", which is an easy test for tiu.)
You also use u-correlatives when talking about a person as opposed to a thing: ĉiu is "everybody", ĉio is "everything".
Note that with the relative pronouns kiu/kio it depends on what the pronoun refers to. If it refers to a noun, you need kiu, but if it refers to a whole subclause or another o-correlative, you need kio.
la libro, kiun mi ŝatas = the book I like
la viro, kiu staras tie = the man who stands over there
ili ne foriris, kio ĉagrenis nin = they didn’t leave, which annoyed us (= the fact that they didn’t leave annoyed us)
mi ŝatas ĉion, kio bongustas = I like everything that tastes well
It’s not an easy topic (probably the thing I had most trouble with), but I hope you get it somewhat using my explanation. I’m sure that after some time it will seem intuitive to you.
RiotNrrd (Å vise profilen) 2011 10 22 19:33:10
I assumed that "tiu" would be used if the subject was identified, and "tio" when it wasn't. However, I applied it too broadly.
Use "tio" if the subject isn't identified in that sentence. But if it is, use "tiu".
You can never (correctly) say "tio X". You must use "tiu X", because the subject (X) is identified right there. However, in the very next sentence, you may once again use "tio" to talk about the very same X, as long as you don't mention the X explicitly.
It's not a "once identified, always use 'tiu'" sort of thing. It's done on a sentence by sentence basis. Just because the X was made known three sentences back doesn't mean that you must use "tiu" in every sentence going forward.
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2011 10 22 19:41:39
RiotNrrd:When I was first learning, I also had great trouble with tio/tiu.Mi volas seĝon! - Kiun? Ĉu tiun aŭ la alian?
I assumed that "tiu" would be used if the subject was identified, and "tio" when it wasn't. However, I applied it too broadly.
Use "tio" if the subject isn't identified in that sentence. But if it is, use "tiu".
You can never (correctly) say "tio X". You must use "tiu X", because the subject (X) is identified right there. However, in the very next sentence, you may once again use "tio" to talk about the very same X, as long as you don't mention the X explicitly.
It's not a "once identified, always use 'tiu'" sort of thing. It's done on a sentence by sentence basis.
RiotNrrd (Å vise profilen) 2011 10 22 19:48:40
However, I think "tion" would also work where you've written "tiun".
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2011 10 22 20:15:36
RiotNrrd:Maybe grammatically, but it sounds strange - it sounds as if the second speaker didn’t acoustically understand the word seĝon.
However, I think "tion" would also work where you've written "tiun".
Anyway I find your explanation that it depends on what sentence you’re in very strange and have never heard of anything like that. Can you give some examples on how that rule would be applied in practice?
RiotNrrd (Å vise profilen) 2011 10 22 20:32:52
Kio? - What (thing)? -
Tiu kato. - That cat. -
Jes, tio estas bela kato. - Yes, that is a pretty cat. -
That's how I'd say it, anyway. I reserve the right to be wrong.
