Messages: 246
Language: English
razlem (User's profile) July 22, 2011, 4:22:21 AM
3rdblade:I think one of the main first goals of any EO-promotion should be to drive home that it's not 'weird'. Much of the promotion I've seen does indeed try to show that.Since when is Esperanto weird?
3rdblade (User's profile) July 22, 2011, 4:35:01 AM
razlem:Since when is Esperanto weird?Of course the people on this forum don't think that, but I think if you took a sounding of ordinary (non-Esperanto speaking) people for their opinions about Esperanto, if they know what it is at all, the chances are they will think it's weird. Where they pick such an idea up, I don't know, but it's something.
But imagine if the first impression people had of EO was say, a charming children's book in their school library when they are 6.
sudanglo (User's profile) July 22, 2011, 10:30:28 AM
Perhaps when people ask where it is spoken we should say in developed countries. Or say, more boldy, in Europe, mostly.
You are so right, 3rdblade in commenting on the lack of ruthlessness in the Esperanto movement. It's pathetic, how ineffectual the promotion is. Which returns me to my idea of aggressively insisting that Globish is not satisfactory.
International English is fine for top-flight scientists, and polylglot politicians, and other members of the academic elite, but not for the man in the street.
geo63 (User's profile) July 22, 2011, 11:27:01 AM
sudanglo:...my idea of aggressively insisting that Globish is not satisfactory.Whatever national language was chosen as an international tool of communication, it would be not satisfactory. Such languages are imposed only by force:
International English is fine for top-flight scientists, and polylglot politicians, and other members of the academic elite, but not for the man in the street.
latin - Roman empire, catholic church
French - France
English - UK, USA
...
Chinese - China with its economic impact on the world of tomorrow
National language is fine for its native speakers, but burden for all the rest. Such was latin, French and now it is English. It is time to break this circle of madness - Esperanto is inconvenient for current native English speakers (why to learn any language when English is international). But what to do when the balance of world powers changes? Will Chinese (or other) be better? Look at the French now - they are very sorry, once they thought just the same way.
ceigered (User's profile) July 22, 2011, 3:49:16 PM
I stress once again that Esperanto can't expect longevity should it rise to power by toppling giants using a weakness that could be used against it. Just look at how many cases in history where the saviours become the oppressors, either in reality or just in the imaginations of those trying to find a reason to get rid of them.
Esperanto isn't magically protected by any sort of artificiality or supposed neutrality. It is still a language, the world order still works the same way, so Esperanto is vulnerable to the same fate as other world languages (e.g. the chance exists, not saying that DEFINITELY will happen).
qwertz (User's profile) July 22, 2011, 6:42:19 PM
sudanglo (User's profile) July 23, 2011, 11:23:54 AM
Esperanto is actually neutral, in not being anybody's native language.
And its artificiality (read, pupose-built characteristics) puts it in a special position that no national language can occupy.
Esperanto is not just another language.
qwertz (User's profile) July 23, 2011, 1:46:09 PM
sudanglo:The notion of 'weirdness' probably comes from the fact that the general public find the idea of a language that is not associated with any country or society is difficult to grasp, and also the idea of an 'invented' language.Who defines, what the general public is?
sudanglo:Who is "we"? How do you define "under-developed" countries?
Perhaps when people ask where it is spoken we should say in developed countries. Or say, more boldy, in Europe, mostly.
sudanglo:What movement? And why there should excist an axiom, that Esperanto speakers are immune against ruthlessness? Did you ever participate at an non-luxury Espo-event, where people get to less sleep at non-comfy accommodation and of course could get ruthless to other esperantists because of that situation???
You are so right, 3rdblade in commenting on the lack of ruthlessness in the Esperanto movement.
sudanglo:How to define "ineffectual promotion"? What is the measure level? Please, don't tell me "the number of Espo speakers". At the times of the Internet I see that measure level completly useless.
It's pathetic, how ineffectual the promotion is. Which returns me to my idea of aggressively insisting that Globish is not satisfactory.
sudanglo:And probably only you could tell "the man in the street" the truth? Could get received somewhat snotnosed by the audience, ĉu ne?
International English is fine for top-flight scientists, and polylglot politicians, and other members of the academic elite, but not for the man in the street.
Sorry, you yourself act elitist somewhere at the individuism side.
sudanglo:I don't like that self-positioning/egocentric efforts for Esperanto language. Its rude against basic community principles.
And its artificiality (read, pupose-built characteristics) puts it in a special position that no national language can occupy.
sudanglo:For me, Esperanto is just another language. Like my native language and other languages, too. Esperantist are nothing more worth than non-Esperantist. Respect the non-Esperantists, please.
Esperanto is not just another language.
razlem (User's profile) July 23, 2011, 3:00:32 PM
sudanglo:...in not being anybody's native language.What about these people?
Esperanto is only neutral for Europe.
sudanglo:Esperanto is not just another language.Yes it is.
Miland (User's profile) July 23, 2011, 3:16:16 PM