Mesaĝoj: 14
Lingvo: English
Suzumiya (Montri la profilon) 2011-julio-14 01:17:42
I have a little doubt.
Which is the difference between da and de when both of them mean ''of''? The dictionary tells me that both of them mean ''of''
For instance:
La bluo de la maro.
La bluo da la maro.
Are both correct? if not, why?
Thank you in advance
Mustelvulpo (Montri la profilon) 2011-julio-14 02:54:19
Suzumiya:Bonan vesperonNo, "la bluo de la maro" is the only one that's correct. They both do mean "of," but use "da" to express quantity. When "da" appears between two words, it means that the first expresses a quantity of the second. "Taso da teo" is a cupful of tea.
I have a little a doubt.
Which is the difference between da and de when both of them mean ''of''? The dictionary tells me that both of them mean ''of''
For instance:
La bluo de la maro.
La bluo da la maro.
Are both correct? if not, why?
Thank you in advance
mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2011-julio-14 07:35:55
Suzumiya:Which is the difference between da and de when both of them mean ''of''?Roughly, "X de Y" means "X belonging/related to Y", while "X da Y" means "a X-ful of Y".
"breto de libroj" is a shelf for books. (a shelf that has been reserved for books)
"breto da libroj" is a shelf-ful of books (as many books as a certain shelf would hold).
With "de", the emphasis is on the first word; you are talking about the shelf, determining one of its properties (specifically, that it is devoted to books). With "da", the emphasis on the second word; you are talking about the books, specifying their quantity by using a certain shelf as a measuring unit of sorts.
henma (Montri la profilon) 2011-julio-14 14:56:04
mnlg:"breto de libroj" is a shelf for books. (a shelf that has been reserved for books)PMEG uses 'grupo de soldatoj' and 'grupo da soldatoj' for this example. The first one is a group, which consists of soldiers, and the second one are soldiers, whose number is qualified as 'a group'.
"breto da libroj" is a shelf-ful of books (as many books as a certain shelf would hold).
With "de", the emphasis is on the first word; you are talking about the shelf, determining one of its properties (specifically, that it is devoted to books). With "da", the emphasis on the second word; you are talking about the books, specifying their quantity by using a certain shelf as a measuring unit of sorts.
I also like the example: glaso de vino, glaso da vino.
The first one is a glass, used to drink wine (and it can be empty), The second one is wine, in quantity enough to fill a glass.
In Spanish both would be translated the same (un vaso de vino), but in English the first one is a 'wine glass' or 'a glass for wine', while the second one is 'a glass of wine'.
Amike,
Daniel.
mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2011-julio-14 15:12:24
henma:In Spanish both would be translated the same (un vaso de vino)That's true for Italian as well. Our partitive is mostly limited to the word 'ne' which is very hard to master for foreign students.
Suzumiya (Montri la profilon) 2011-julio-14 15:54:29
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2011-julio-15 13:22:12
mnlg:I just looked that up on wiktionary because I saw it on my 3DS screen a while ago (I was trying it out... in italianohenma:In Spanish both would be translated the same (un vaso de vino)That's true for Italian as well. Our partitive is mostly limited to the word 'ne' which is very hard to master for foreign students.
).I partitivi in lingue sono difficile. Ma, in italiano, ce ne è uno solo!
. Non penso che è troppo difficile! (I'll soon find out though!)Ma, la pronunziazione dell'italiano... Mmm, penso che Esperanto vince
.(Partitives in languages are difficult. But, in Italian, there's only one!
. I don't think that's too difficult! (...)But, the pronunciation of Italian... Mmm, I think that Esperanto wins
(difficulty wise of course, they both sound equally cool)).---
But anyway, I think what makes these partitives so difficult in languages is that they don't translate too well. The partitives themselves are easy, but we just have trouble getting anything to do with quantities figured out in our heads.
orthohawk (Montri la profilon) 2011-julio-16 17:01:33
mnlg:I don't know........would you still say "glaso da vino" if it spilled onto the floor? G da V means to me, the glass is there and there's wine in it.
I also like the example: glaso de vino, glaso da vino.
The first one is a glass, used to drink wine (and it can be empty), The second one is wine, in quantity enough to fill a glass.
Amike,
Daniel.
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2011-julio-17 06:19:51
orthohawk:I don't know........would you still say "glaso da vino" if it spilled onto the floor? G da V means to me, the glass is there and there's wine in it.tapiŝo da vino.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-julio-17 11:06:54
A "tapiŝo da vino" would be a carpet-sized quantity of wine. The whole carpet would have to be soaked.