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Pronoun + noun as subject

از 3rdblade, 26 ژوئیهٔ 2011

پست‌ها: 8

زبان: English

3rdblade (نمایش مشخصات) 26 ژوئیهٔ 2011،‏ 1:58:36

I was thinking about the following construction in English and presume it is the same in EO, but want to make sure. It's basically stating the subject as both a pronoun then a noun for emphasis. How are these translations:

"You guys are from America, right?"
Vi uloj devenis de usono, ĉu ne?

"We cats prefer sleeping to conversations."
Ni katoj preferas dormi ol interparoladi."

"We Australians don't eat much goat."
Ni aŭstralianoj ne manĝas multe da kapraĵo.

acdibble (نمایش مشخصات) 26 ژوئیهٔ 2011،‏ 3:37:52

»Ĉiuj« can also be used instead of »uloj«.
Vi ĉiuj estas el Usono, ĉu?
You all are from the US, right?

sudanglo (نمایش مشخصات) 26 ژوئیهٔ 2011،‏ 9:38:58

I am fairly sure that that construction is not uncommon 3rdBlade.

Also two nouns together as the subject. D-ro, Zamenhof, okulisto el Pollando ...

Get's a bit more complicated when the juxtaposition occupies the object postion in sentence. Do the two both take the accusative? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Ĉu vi konas la urbon Parizo?

Cŭ vi povas gastigi nin ĉiujn?

mnlg (نمایش مشخصات) 26 ژوئیهٔ 2011،‏ 10:37:44

sudanglo:Get's a bit more complicated when the juxtaposition occupies the object postion in sentence. Do the two both take the accusative? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
It doesn't really. You do not add the accusative when the other word is what we call (in Italian) an "attribute of the object", or a "predicative of the object" - like a proper name, as in the case you have mentioned.

Proper names must follow the common name they refer to, without a preposition in between. Urbo Parizo, lando Italio, kontinento Eŭropo, lago Izeo, and so forth.

Other times the predicative is an adjective but the rule stays. "Mi trovis la manĝon bona".

ceigered (نمایش مشخصات) 26 ژوئیهٔ 2011،‏ 11:16:53

sudanglo:Ĉu vi konas la urbon Parizo?
It's almost as if there's an implied set of "" around Parizo.

UUano (نمایش مشخصات) 1 اوت 2011،‏ 0:37:37

ceigered:
sudanglo:Ĉu vi konas la urbon Parizo?
It's almost as if there's an implied set of "" around Parizo.
I always hear an implied "nomiĝita" in instances such as this.

Polaris (نمایش مشخصات) 1 اوت 2011،‏ 4:05:20

3rdblade:I was thinking about the following construction in English and presume it is the same in EO, but want to make sure. It's basically stating the subject as both a pronoun then a noun for emphasis. How are these translations:

"You guys are from America, right?"
Vi uloj devenis de usono, ĉu ne?

"We cats prefer sleeping to conversations."
Ni katoj preferas dormi ol interparoladi."

"We Australians don't eat much goat."
Ni aŭstralianoj ne manĝas multe da kapraĵo.
For "you guys", I would either use vi or ĉiuj vi. We (English native speakers) say "you guys" (or "you all" in the southern United States) to get around the lack of a second person plural pronoun, so there really is no need to specify "uloj". In some places, people often even say "you guys" to groups of ladies.

For "we cats", I would say "Ni LA katoj" (inserting an article). This makes it obvious that you didn't mean niaj katoj (and mistakenly leave off the ending).

I would do the same with Australians---"Ni la auxstralianoj...."

mnlg:Other times the predicative is an adjective but the rule stays. "Mi trovis la manĝon bona"
If you can insert the word "esti" between the noun and the adjective and preserve the sense, then leave off the "n". Otherwise, you're saying you found the good food (not found the food "TO BE" good).

Miland (نمایش مشخصات) 1 اوت 2011،‏ 11:07:07

Polaris:For "we cats", I would say "Ni LA katoj"..
The U.S. Constitution begins "Ni la popolo.." but that was written a little while ago. I wouldn't use the definite article after ni myself. Have you seen such usage in any magazines recently?

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