FYI qwertz, the small talk that you mark as "social positioning" is just people who are trying to get to know you. "What country do you come from?" is a perfectly reasonable question to ask when you meet a new Esperanto speaker. People want to know which Esperanto events you attended because they might think they recognize you. I once met an American Esperantist and we spent a few minutes trying to figure out whether we had met before, by comparing Esperanto events (we hadn't met). You see these things as an effort to put distance between people. In fact, these things are an effort to become closer to you. People are trying to find out things that you have in common. Maybe you have been to the same events, maybe you know the same people, maybe the person has visited your country or even your city.

I don't know where you're getting this part about exams and levels. No one at an Esperanto event has ever asked me my Esperanto level and no one has ever asked me if I took a KER exam. You hardly need to ask someone's level. It is obvious in the first minute of a conversation.

Solulo:What authority dares to make me take an examination in EO?

None. You can easily make your real level known by posting messages in good Esperanto. Besides, enthusiasm for La Espero may be more important.

Miland:...You can easily make your real level known by posting messages in good Esperanto. Besides, enthusiasm for La Espero may be more important.

This is what I have been trying to say all the way. Thanks, Miland. And let's go back to PMEG.

qwertz:@geo63 - I believe, that this is a culture matter. There excist cultures where people need strong self-positioning inside their social constructions. So, before that self-postioning folks are start any "normal" talk with you they will find out your postion to several matters first which they believe are important according to their believes i.e. Where are you from? How long did you learn Esperanto? Did you pass any (KER) excams? How much E-o events did you attend? ktp. After finishing that "self-positioning check-list" the "normal" conversation can begin. They call it "small talk". But why not talk about the current situation both communication partners are in right here, right now? Means creating of closeness instead of distance? ( individuisma kontraŭe kolegisma pensado )

Well, actually, this social positioning stuff has its benefits. I mean, it helps people coordinate communication based on a predicted abstraction of each other's characters, and in this case taking into account local culture and ability to communicate in Esperanto. I know we both like to engage in this whether we realise it or not, since I know both of us get a bit annoyed when people don't take into account our cultural differences, and assume we work the same way as them.

I guess one way of thinking of it is that it makes getting close a lot easier if you know how far away from you everyone is, and how many bends there are in the road to get to them (cruise control can be dangerous after all hehe)

erinja:As I said before, no one is forcing ANYONE to take an Esperanto exam.

Miland:None. You can easily make your real level known by posting messages in good Esperanto. Besides, enthusiasm for La Espero may be more important.

Oh.. Oh! I see what's goin' on here!

erinja:FYI qwertz, the small talk that you mark as "social positioning" is just people who are trying to get to know you. "What country do you come from?" is a perfectly reasonable question to ask when you meet a new Esperanto speaker.

Yes, as long it just remains to one or two questions, that's fine to me, too. But if it comes to kind of checklist scenario then I reclaim some personal privacy. That was, what I meant. (Probably I'm somewhat over-sensible to that due to experiences with Bavarian mentality which intensive lives that self-positioning. I'm sorry for that.)

erinja:
You see these things as an effort to put distance between people.

Its simply past focused which often goes to dead-end conversation. Making shared experiences and activities (music, sport, theatre ktp) at the ongoing E-o event remains exciting the whole E-o event.

erinja:
In fact, these things are an effort to become closer to you. People are trying to find out things that you have in common.

Yes later, but not at the first contact and not that rapid.

erinja:
Maybe you have been to the same events, maybe you know the same people, maybe the person has visited your country or even your city.

Yes, but more future focusing would be fine.

erinja:
I don't know where you're getting this part about exams and levels. No one at an Esperanto event has ever asked me my Esperanto level and no one has ever asked me if I took a KER exam. You hardly need to ask someone's level. It is obvious in the first minute of a conversation.

Yes, of course. The esperanto version of KER doesn't excist that long.

Miland:Besides, enthusiasm for La Espero may be more important.

Yes, I agree. Singing LE at FESTO and JES events is the best way to get aloudly and mass of Buhs- and FaE-disagreement. Try it yourselve. The (European) esperanto youth isn't that polite like you could expect. Especially regarding that E-o movado bla, bla, bla.

Why would Esperanto youth be more polite than anyone else's youth?

erinja:Why would Esperanto youth be more polite than anyone else's youth?

Because they have learnt esperanto, that's why. And this is a good start to respect other people.

geo63:

erinja:Why would Esperanto youth be more polite than anyone else's youth?

Because they have learnt esperanto, that's why. And this is a good start to respect other people.

+100

Because they simply are (to be honest though, most respectful people I know have never heard of Esperanto before. I can then divide them up into people who learn cultures they're interested in, but wouldn't bother with EO (the old fashioned "go the whole way, not bothering waiting in the middle half way"), or don't bother with anything, and in a sense don't ever get in anyone's way).

Esperanto youth are not more polite than other youth, I can say that for sure.

There is certainly an Esperanto culture that is extremely accepting of differences between people, and Esperanto youth culture is also like that. But Esperanto youth just find different ways to be impolite. I have not found them polite at all. It's the same things you'd expect of youth everywhere; sitting in the back snickering at all of the 'old people' singing La Espero with full-throated sincerity, having a laugh about "the bigger the green star, the worse a person speaks Esperanto", jokes and jibes about authority figures, etc. etc.

erinja:It's the same things you'd expect of youth everywhere; sitting in the back snickering at all of the 'old people' singing La Espero with full-throated sincerity, having a laugh about "the bigger the green star, the worse a person speaks Esperanto"..

That suggests that we needn't take too seriously opposition to La Espero or la verda stelo on the grounds that they are considered 'unfashionable' by youth, since the same kind of 'rebellion' may well have occurred in the past.