It's hard to say, I haven't seen the youth of the past. But I do think that people who "grew up in the movement", if you will, have a different viewpoint from those who came to Esperanto as adults.

I don't see youths as being against green stars, per se. But at large Esperanto events, you will sometimes see people wearing huge gaudy green star jewellery, with shirts that say "ESPERANTO" in big letters, wearing a green star hat and carrying an "Esperanto Internacia Lingvo" bag.

People like that are not likely to be youths. I've seen youths wearing smaller green stars, a small pin, a necklace charm, a pair of earrings. And I've seen youths wearing Esperanto t-shirts as well. But it's usually not a gaudy in-your-face Esperanto outfit like you sometimes see on middle-aged women in particular.

Even with regard to La Espero, I don't see it as being necessarily against the song in general. I think that many young Esperantists look at the community through an outsider's eyes, and it looks like a strange religion or cult, with the flags and hymns, and they don't like that.

Or else they see it as boring and they'd rather skip the long speeches in favor of doing something more fun.

Miland:That suggests that we* needn't take too seriously opposition to La Espero or la verda stelo on the grounds that they are considered 'unfashionable' by youth, since the same kind of 'rebellion' may well have occurred in the past.

Opposition, rebellion? Sorry, what?

Youth folk joining any group of people isn't emotionally bounded to tradition of that people by definition. Regarding Esperanto youth: They want to build up their own Esperantujo. That's quite difficult because mostly they don't have the monetary power to do so.

Regarding respect: Esperanto veterans also should respect, that Esperanto Youth would not take any efforts to proceed any tradition they are not emotionally bounded to. So, who doesn't respect whom?

Who is "we"*?

erinja:
I don't see youths as being against green stars, per se. But at large Esperanto events, you will sometimes see people wearing huge gaudy green star jewellery, with shirts that say "ESPERANTO" in big letters, wearing a green star hat and carrying an "Esperanto Internacia Lingvo" bag.

That sounds hilarious!

erinja:I think that many young Esperantists look at the community through an outsider's eyes, and it looks like a strange religion or cult, with the flags and hymns, and they don't like that.

That's promising, then. It can only be good for Esperanto, if we can cut out the eccentric bits!

erinja:
Or else they see it as boring and they'd rather skip the long speeches in favor of doing something more fun.

Fair enough!

qwertz:Youth folk joining any group of people isn't emotionally bounded to tradition of that people by definition.. So, who doesn't respect whom?..Who is "we"?

I would say that respecting young people as human beings is good. But it is also right to teach them to esteem and preserve the traditions of the movement, since the traditions help to preserve its values and make its continuity visible. That is a responsibility for the whole movement.

Edit: "We" is those Esperantists who are not "snickering at all of the 'old people' singing La Espero" and having a laugh about "the bigger the green star, the worse a person speaks Esperanto."

Chainy:

komenstanto:For instance, there could be antagonism between British and American, as the British think Americans are stupid,

!?

komenstanto:I for one would not want to toy with say someone from Poland who maybe has psychological issues related to Poland rather than a true international mindset.

!?

Is this guy joking? It's almost Mikijo style.

Sorry, I just meant that there is more to communication than just learning Esperanto, and that in a classroom environment its good to have a 3rd party mediator between speakers who are learning, otherwise they might get caught up in these kind of nuances of communication between various foreigners without learning the language properly.

In many Asian nations for instance, its impolite to point your foot at the host of a dinner party you are invited to. So imagine you are in the Philippines or somewhere, and you are at a dinner where people speak esperanto, and you unknowingly cross your legs and have your foot pointed at the host. Obviously here either the host will excuse it, or it will be taken as a grave offense.

If this is a forum for komencantoj or hardened speakers of the language. In either case a 3rd party barometer is a fine idea. I dont intend to post too much on this forum. Just wanted to clarify my meaning.

Miland:

qwertz:Youth folk joining any group of people isn't emotionally bounded to tradition of that people by definition.. So, who doesn't respect whom?..Who is "we"?

I would say that respecting young people as human beings is good. But it is also right to teach them to esteem and preserve the traditions of the movement, since the traditions help to preserve its values and make its continuity visible. That is a responsibility for the whole movement.

Hhm. I'm in doubt that young esperantists nowadays would accept that patriach role of Esperanto veterans. But I'm not that young at all. So I could be wrong. What I noticed during last FESTO(JEFO) event in France, that young folks have very detailed ideas/beliefs how the Esperantujo has to look like and how that community should work. And they have a very strong respect belief for being accepted at same "hierarchy level" in the manner of collegiality. I'm really in doubt if that collegiality works together with any patriachic organised movement. In my opinion young folks would accept solely some mentoring role of Esperanto veterans means that E-o veterans should be capable to discuss, check and of course change traditional Esperanto movement beliefs.

Miland:
Edit: "We" is those Esperantists who are not "snickering at all of the 'old people' singing La Espero" and having a laugh about "the bigger the green star, the worse a person speaks Esperanto."

Thanks to clarify that. Speaking in the name of others (="we") corpus seems to be somewhat movement characteristic. I don't know if the German word "Bewegung" meet excactly the English word "movement". But the German "Bewegung" could be somewhat like an "mal-" word to "Gemeinschaft/community" which means in detail completly different manners to spread an specific idea. I hope that the English "movement" word has a more relaxed meaning than the German "Bewegung" of that kind which already brought Germany near the sheer in the past.

qwertz:I'm in doubt that young esperantists nowadays would accept that patriach role of Esperanto veterans .. young folks have very detailed ideas/beliefs how the Esperantujo has to look like ..

I don't think that anyone needs to be a 'patriarch' or even old - just willing to uphold the traditions. That is why I spoke of it being a responsibility for the whole community. The "very detailed ideas" may well be good, but they should be consistent with holding on to those things that are most deeply rooted. For example, the Fundamento, la verda stelo and La Espero all go back to the beginning of the movement. New logos, ideas and ways of expressing the idea of the movement (like a backpackers' association) should be quite compatible with holding onto these things.

qwertz:And they have a very strong respect belief for being accepted at same "hierarchy level" in the manner of collegiality.

Why do you keep pushing this idea of 'collegiality' on us? Is that your way of 'self-positioning'?

Miland:
Edit: "We" is those Esperantists who are not "snickering at all of the 'old people' singing La Espero" and having a laugh about "the bigger the green star, the worse a person speaks Esperanto."

Is it possible not to snigger at that kind of thing?

Ok, maybe I'm a bit too cynical, but I think it's good if people look at the whole thing as if from outside the movement. It's probably a good idea to try and make things a bit more 'cool' and attractive to young people. And also, it's worth toning down the fanatical and eccentric exuberance of those wearing big green stars. And that's for the benefit of older people, too. I'm in my thirties, and I'm certainly put off by all that!

Chainy:

Miland:
Edit: "We" is those Esperantists who are not "snickering at all of the 'old people' singing La Espero" and having a laugh about "the bigger the green star, the worse a person speaks Esperanto."

Is it possible not to snigger at that kind of thing?

Yes.

Actually I'm not against developing new Esperantaj mojosaĵoj. My point is only that our deepest traditions shouldn't be thrown overboard in the process.