Príspevky: 90
Jazyk: English
ceigered (Zobraziť profil) 23. augusta 2011 14:09:40
qwertz:Thanks ceigered: Gruppenmentalität is also used in German. I feel group mentality more clear detailed in the sense of statistic. Contrary "groupthink" seems to be more abstract.Mmm, to me it doesn't quite make sense, I mean, it does make sense, but it doesn't feel 100% right. Because "groupthink" isn't used in English, it gives too literal an image to the listener/reader (like, the group thinks as one, with the aid of the uni-mind - that reference is probably too obscure for anyone older than me though though
) 
erinja (Zobraziť profil) 23. augusta 2011 14:48:55
ceigered:Because "groupthink" isn't used in English, it gives too literal an image to the listener/reader
Groupthink is used in English, I didn't make it up. It has an article in Wikipedia.
Granted, I didn't use it in the traditional sense; it is normally used in a business sense, where a group of people are inclined to follow one another rather than coming up with innovative ideas.
But in a metaphorical sense it's true of the looters as well, they go along with the crowd rather than saying "Wait a minute, I shouldn't be doing this"
erinja (Zobraziť profil) 23. augusta 2011 14:50:36
geo63:Don't you think this comes after Polish? After all Zamenhof was partly Polish.It doesn't really matter how it works in Polish, or whether Zamenhof was influenced was Polish in this case. The historical usage (including Zamenhof's own usage) doesn't support the PIV definition. Therefore Esperanto's usage of this word is different from the Polish usage of the roz- prefix.
ceigered (Zobraziť profil) 23. augusta 2011 15:23:06
Whoah, that is weird. Sorry qwertz, I thought you were coming up with new English words when it was Erinja this time
(nur ŝercas!)But yeah, sorry about that... Trust it to be to do with business, and referring to the loss of individual creativity, when it's such a creative term itself
.I stand corrected then. You can probably tell I have an "armchair degree" in psychology
(I have to say I like "Schwarmintelligenz" as brought up by qwertz more than group-think
) qwertz (Zobraziť profil) 23. augusta 2011 15:28:29
ceigered:I see Swarm intelligence much more like the ideal bringing together of that what everybody is best of. Something similar like Army ants but of course at much more higher intellectual level.
(I have to say I like "Schwarmintelligenz" as brought up by qwertz more than group-think
Groupthink - same like movement beliefs - seems to supress individualism/creativity.
geo63:That remembers me to the situation of the last trejnokaravano from Zakopano to Germany (JES 2010). We (some Germans) were surrounded by - of course lots of Polish folks. Seems to be that there excist some Polish dialect, which sounds similar like Esperanto. Especially that Kial matters etc. One of us gets somewhat crazy and ask the regarding people if the speak Esperanto. But of course they didn't. Anyway, was a lot of refreshing fun after the shock of the being awaking 5 meters nearby a dead homeless person in Sucha Beskidzka. Pooh.
Don't you think this comes after Polish? After all Zamenhof was partly Polish.
Miland (Zobraziť profil) 23. augusta 2011 15:41:32
geo63:..in Polish dis- translates as "roz-". So:This is an interesting suggestion, but in 1 Kroniko 17:53 we have Kaj
rabi - "rabować"
disrabi - "rozrabować", and this means in Polish that same as PIV 2005 states.
..
doni = "dać"
disdoni = "rozdać"
..
Don't you think this comes after Polish? After all Zamenhof was partly Polish.
la Izraelidoj revenis de la kurado post la Filistoj kaj disrabis ilian tendaron.
So in this context, to Zamenhof disrabi did not mean dividing stolen goods, but simply robbing with violence.
Do you have any evidence from his writings that suggests that Zamenhof used disrabi in the sense of dividing stolen goods?
geo63 (Zobraziť profil) 23. augusta 2011 17:19:53
qwertz:...Anyway, was a lot of refreshing fun after the shock of the being awaking 5 meters nearby a dead homeless person in Sucha Beskidzka. Pooh.Seems like German homeless die in palaces.
qwertz (Zobraziť profil) 23. augusta 2011 17:33:28
geo63:It was no offense against Poland, okay. It was an Polish homeless guy who died in Poland. It could happen in Germany, too.qwertz:...Anyway, was a lot of refreshing fun after the shock of the being awaking 5 meters nearby a dead homeless person in Sucha Beskidzka. Pooh.Seems like German homeless die in palaces.
Peace?
Germans can love Poland. Take a look at polenfueranfaenger.wordpress.com*. Maybe you know Steffen Möller who is reclaimed well known in Poland regarding Polish-German matters.
@reading audience: Polish-German relationship could be somewhat difficult due to historical reasons. Should be the same to Polish-Russian relatonship.
*That folks from Berlin (=Kurt Krömer; dozens of jokes about silly German prejudices) are really refreshing for a big continuing laughing .... Coool.
( Polen für Anfänger - Steffen Möller und Kurt Krömer 03:40 minute: "The most cars stolen inside EU are not stolen in Poland, they will most stolen in Italy." (That's a joke against silly German prejudices) Aj, jaj, jaj.
Chainy (Zobraziť profil) 23. augusta 2011 18:09:55
geo63:That is interesting, in Polish dis- translates as "roz-". So:The Esperanto word 'disrabi' closely matches the Russian word 'razgrabit' (разграбить):
rabi - "rabować"
disrabi - "rozrabować", and this means in Polish that same as PIV 2005 states.
raz = dis
grabit = rabi
I've just been reading some Russian texts about the London riots and they generally use 'Razgrabit' for 'to loot'.
So, it seems that this is what influenced Zamenhof in the creation of 'disrabi'. Maybe not an immediately obvious meaning when you look at other uses of 'dis-' but perhaps you could say that the 'dis-' indicates that the robbing was widespread and scattered, which is the case during looting.
qwertz (Zobraziť profil) 23. augusta 2011 18:16:48
Chainy:I first confused "rabi" with "rabio". In German "rabi" estas "rauben" which seems to be an Old-German fashion* word in Germany and seldom used stand-alone means "Raub-"etc. Mostly "Raubüberfall" is used if something is spectacular stolen with violence manner.
So, it seems that this is what influenced Zamenhof in the creation of 'disrabi'. Maybe not an immediately obvious meaning when you look at other uses of 'dis-' but perhaps you could say that the 'dis-' indicates that the robbing was widespread and scattered, which is the case during looting.
*sorry, some small joke-apex to Austria. We are friends, ĉu ne? Nothing serious.