Поруке: 133
Језик: English
Chainy (Погледати профил) 07. септембар 2011. 14.40.41
erinja:I've never come across that one before - charging for tap water!! Are you sure it was tap water?
Huge annoying issue during UK in Copenhagen - many/most restaurants in Copenhagen charge money for tap water. If I remember right, I think it was around DKK 10, which makes it around US $1.80 or EUR 1.35. I was absolutely appalled.
Whenever I go out to a restaurant in France I can always ask for a jug of water for free.
Obviously, the menus don't mention this fact - they will only show the mineral water in bottles that you have to pay for. But, even in that case, if you ask the waiter for just some water, they'll bring it for free.
I'm not sure what the rules are, but I think in some countries the restaurants are obliged to offer tap water for free. I seem to remember that being the case in the UK.
darkweasel (Погледати профил) 07. септембар 2011. 15.01.41
Chainy:In Austria there is no such rule, but in practice you can get it for free (though I’ve never tried myself, as I prefer sparkling water).
I'm not sure what the rules are, but I think in some countries the restaurants are obliged to offer tap water for free. I seem to remember that being the case in the UK.
erinja (Погледати профил) 07. септембар 2011. 15.03.34
Chainy:I've never come across that one before - charging for tap water!! Are you sure it was tap water?It was definitely tap water. You could tell by the taste. And at any rate their bottled water cost more than that, so you could tell by the cost as well. One restaurant tried not to give it to us. The waiter tried to tell us that they do not offer tap water. Then we insisted and he agreed to bring it to us. We asked for a pitcher and he refused that, he insisted that it had to be in a cup. And then he brought one more cup than we really needed, and he charged us for that too. We refused to pay for the glass of water that was more than we had requested, that no one even drank.
No one warned us in advance that it would cost money, I suppose they figured we already knew. But what were we going to do, not drink anything?
qwertz (Погледати профил) 07. септембар 2011. 15.32.39
erinja:Yes, of course. That article isn't talking about changes to the language. Its talking about ultra-conservative mindset of some Esperanto folks.qwertz:Also, Libera Folio, September 05/2011: "... Malgraŭ la evidenta kolapso de la tuta organzita Esperanto-movado, ..., estas fundamenta kaj profunda kontraŭado kaj malamo al iu ajn kiu proponas ŝanĝojn ..."However, the article is not talking about changes to the language. It is talking about changes to the way that the Esperanto movement functions.
ceigered (Погледати профил) 07. септембар 2011. 15.39.09
3rdblade:A little anecdote for you guys. Recently I was in a museum in Japan which had an exhibit on language diversity in the world, and included a huge shelf of dozens of translations of Le Petit Prince. Aha, I thought, and looked for the Esperanto one. It wasn't there, but there was an Ido one.Amazing! Anything on Esperanto in there?
Apparently there's stuff about Esperanto on in the Adelaide Migration Museum coming up soon... Might have a look about that
Also, I'm close to going with:
"Esperanto: Just a bloody language. Seriously, who gives a flying $#%@? I can speak what I like, just like you speak English or French or Ancient Polynesian."
A bit long though.
sudanglo (Погледати профил) 09. септембар 2011. 12.12.56
It is very difficult to think of clear, grammatical correct expression in Esperanto which will immediately identify the speaker as not belonging to the group.
The language is designed for cross-cultural communication.
Maybe we should refer to Esperanto as not an international language but as a cross-cultural language, thereby pre-empting the standard counter argument that Esperanto is a language without culture.
One can think of expressions in Esperanto which will indentify the speaker as being one of us - like Eĉ guto malgranda povas trabori la monton granitan, or, Ni fosu nian sulkon - but I can't think of expressions which will identify the speaker as being 'foreign'.
Such possibilities, of course, abound in the natural languages, riddled as they are with idiomatic usage which must be observed.
erinja (Погледати профил) 09. септембар 2011. 12.47.14
sudanglo:... the misuse of 'small beer' in the pub situation identifies the speaker as not being a native speaker.This statement is unfair.
The speaker may be an American or someone from a different English-speaking culture. I have never heard of "small beer" (meaning something of little consequence) before this thread. We say "small potatoes" in the US. I can see an American ordering a small beer in a pub (though "small" is of course a relative term).
Small beer, the ancient drink of beer containing little alcohol, is still made today. There is a brewery in San Francisco that makes it, and I have heard of various microbreweries that make it. So it could be a native-English beer enthusiast who is ordering a genuine small beer, assuming the establishment sells it.
[from the little I've read online, it seems that "small beer", the low-alcohol brew, was popular in the North American colonies, perhaps after it had already died out in the UK]
ceigered (Погледати профил) 09. септембар 2011. 15.13.28
sudanglo:It is very difficult to think of clear, grammatical correct expression in Esperanto which will immediately identify the speaker as not belonging to the group.I like it. Great way to think of it. Of course, it is in a strict sense "international", but cross cultural covers its actual abilities and bias far better than "international" that gives the impressions of new world orders and united humanity
The language is designed for cross-cultural communication.
Maybe we should refer to Esperanto as not an international language but as a cross-cultural language, thereby pre-empting the standard counter argument that Esperanto is a language without culture.
Although I agree with Erinja, I'm clearly a native speaker and I thought we were literally talking about small beers
. But I get what you're saying - that it's immediately obvious neither of us are from your neck of the woods, and neither of us speak your type of English 
RiotNrrd (Погледати профил) 10. септембар 2011. 05.50.33
La Lingvo Interkultura
ceigered (Погледати профил) 10. септембар 2011. 07.31.10