Ku rupapuro rw'ibirimwo

Translation of Names

ca, kivuye

Ubutumwa 42

ururimi: English

Andybolg (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 21 Ntwarante 2007 15:55:10

This is really interesting reading. Being Norwegian, neither the 'r' or 'h' sound is a problem for me. The 'ĥ' might be, though, as it doesn't exist in my language at all. The 'z' is also hard, I tend to pronounce it like an 's'. And the difference between 'ĉ', 'ĝ' and 'ĵ' is a problem, especially the last one.
But how the :: can you think that 'h' and 'ĥ' are similar? lango.gif I find them quite different ...

Some other hard sounds are the 'ch' sounds and the 'r' in German. And, yes, the word 'three' in English is hard too. lango.gif

erinja (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 21 Ntwarante 2007 16:05:12

Islander:
The ĥ is like the ch in "Bach", which I don't think anyone would ever confuse for a plain h.
Well, take your example. For me (french guy), this is pronounced just the same as "Bak", with an accentuation of the "a" ("kind of "Baok"). If it was "Bah", then it would be pronounced "Ba".
Very true. But I believe DesertNaiad is a native English speaker, and Bach is usually pronounced here with (something similar to) its correct German pronunciation. And since we have the letter h in English, h itself shouldn't be an issue (unlike, as you mention, in languages like French and Italian, where the h is not pronounced).

Mendacapote (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 21 Ntwarante 2007 18:49:43

In Spanish de h is soundless too, but I think the h and hx are not the worst pronounceable letters of Esperanto. For me the nightmare is to emphasize the difference between j, jx, kaj gx. We don’t differentiate between those three sounds in Latino-america, although we all pronounce them differently by regions. For example: in the Caribbean area we pronounce the three of them like “i” (Playa=plaia) but in the “southern cone” they pronounce it like “ch” (Playa=Placha). So in the Caribbean we say: “Ió vivo en la Plaia” and the “gauchos” say: “Chó vivo en la Placha” The original Spanish pronunciation differentiated between “y” and “ll”, but somehow it was lost crossing the Atlantic.

erinja (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 21 Ntwarante 2007 20:25:28

I have heard that in some varieties of South American Spanish, the letter s is not really pronounced. Is that true?

Mendacapote (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 21 Ntwarante 2007 21:19:36

Yes! For example in Guantánamo, Cuba. There is a joke: “Sargento Acota, Sargento Acota: preséntese en la Pota, con el caco y la bota puetassss”. (Sargento Acosta, Sargento Acosta; preséntese en la Posta con el casco y las botas puestas) It sounds so funny you think they are pulling your leg! In some areas of Colombia they change “s” for “j”: The say: Jí, Jeñora! (Sí, Señora). But it’s a very quick and aspirated “j” (sounds like a soft “h” in English). Beside that, we all in America mispronounce the “c” and “z”; we pronounce it like “s” (if we pronounce it at all!!!).

Islander (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Ntwarante 2007 00:34:54

It sounds so funny you think they are pulling your leg!
Well, not speaking spanish I'll trust you on that one. I got Sergeant, now and boot! Not that funny like that... rido.gif

Mendacapote (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Ntwarante 2007 01:00:46

Islander:

The hilarious point isn’t the content, but the mispronunciation! If you miss some “s” and add others where they don’t fit, it sounds very funny. The incredible thing is that they actually talk that way!!!

pastorant (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Ntwarante 2007 01:06:22

Mendacapote:Yes! For example in Guantánamo, Cuba. There is a joke: “Sargento Acota, Sargento Acota: preséntese en la Pota, con el caco y la bota puetassss”. (Sargento Acosta, Sargento Acosta; preséntese en la Posta con el casco y las botas puestas) It sounds so funny you think they are pulling your leg! In some areas of Colombia they change “s” for “j”: The say: Jí, Jeñora! (Sí, Señora). But it’s a very quick and aspirated “j” (sounds like a soft “h” in English). Beside that, we all in America mispronounce the “c” and “z”; we pronounce it like “s” (if we pronounce it at all!!!).
Yo lo se, mi ciudad tiene muchos borinqueños.

And when they speak English it sounds very funny.
Por ejemplo:
I pick panis. I no pick inglis.
(I speak Spanish. I don't speak English)

My spanish accent I'm told is muy peruano, but I can speak "in the barrio" and pronounce my Spanish like Puerto Ricans or Mexicans.
Like not pronouncing plurals. That ANNOYS new learners! Necito do caja (I need 2 boxes)
I'm not sure if I just picked up really bad habits though okulumo.gif

Mendacapote (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Ntwarante 2007 01:31:00

Well I learned to speak English by myself listening to the radio and watching American movies. So I speak a sort filthy, freaky and broken American English. Some American friends say it sounds “good”, but too rude. I’ve being trying to make it more “potable”, more polite, with less cursing and swearwords. The problem is that you follow some patterns and they fix deep in your brain… and believe me, it’s tough to get rid of the wrong ones! My advice: Don’t learn broken, mispronounced Spanish. It isn’t that important to look “native”, but to speak it clean, clear and well.

pastorant (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Ntwarante 2007 03:00:15

Mendacapote:Well I learned to speak English by myself listening to the radio and watching American movies. So I speak a sort filthy, freaky and broken American English. Some American friends say it sounds “good”, but too rude. I’ve being trying to make it more “potable”, more polite, with less cursing and swearwords. The problem is that you follow some patterns and they fix deep in your brain… and believe me, it’s tough to get rid of the wrong ones! My advice: Don’t learn broken, mispronounced Spanish. It isn’t that important to look “native”, but to speak it clean, clear and well.
Very true. I appreciate the advice. While I did learn proper "Castillian", I've lately (embarrassingly) been switching to a more guttural "street" form. Mexican friends years ago would laugh when I spoke with the characteristic "lisp" (s and c/z).
After years of being self-conscious, and being surrounded by "crude" Latinos, I changed my accent. I hear that they speak "cleaner" in Venezuela, Peru and Ecuador, verdad?

P.S. I'm very impressed that you were able to learn English the way that you did. If i tried to learn Chinese with nothing but TV and the radio, 10 years later I wouldn't know any more than I did to start ridulo.gif

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