"insofar as"
ca, kivuye
Ubutumwa 24
ururimi: English
Donniedillon (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 2 Gitugutu 2011 16:16:46
roint:I'm looking to translate certain passages of Spinoza's Ethics into Esperanto...I am a big Spinoza fan and would love to read your translations. Would you be willing to email or private message them to me when you finish?
qwertz (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 2 Gitugutu 2011 16:20:41
darkweasel:Grrr.erinja:Someone might want to look in their PIV.
Already excists a digital community version? 
darkweasel (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 2 Gitugutu 2011 16:27:08
qwertz:The PDF I’ve screenshotted has already been existing for a long time, google for it and you’ll find it.darkweasel:Grrr.erinja:Someone might want to look in their PIV.
qwertz (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 2 Gitugutu 2011 16:37:24
roint (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 3 Gitugutu 2011 13:50:04
As for the "aux" of equivalence, since it is used so much in the Ethics, within very large, complicated sentences, unfortunately a large construction like "kiu en la pensado de Spinoza egalas al", though clear, wouldn't be appropriate. It would either have to be a simple one-word construction like "auxsame", or just "aux" italicized, like in the English translation. An example sentence, in which the first two "or"s are "alternative" and the third is "equivalent":
"Thus, whether we conceive nature under the attribute of extension, or under the attribute of thought, or under any other attribute, we shall find the same order, or one and the same chain of causes-that is, the same things following in either case."
It's a distinction which greatly clarifies his metaphysics, since he equates so many ideas with other ideas, like "reality = perfection", "god = nature = substance", etc.
BTW - Book titles using "or" are a great example of the "or of equivalence", although usually the first title is meant to be used more, like "The Hobbit, or There and Back Again"
But the real tough nut for me is "insofar as", which is another term used quite a bit in the Ethics. I think I like "tiugrade" the best, but could you explain why it's preferable to "tiomgrade"? Just curious about that.
darkweasel (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 3 Gitugutu 2011 14:43:29
roint: I think I like "tiugrade" the best, but could you explain why it's preferable to "tiomgrade"? Just curious about that.Because tiugrade is a vortigo (according to PMEG terminology) of de tiu grado.
You cannot say *de tiom grado or anything similar, so you cannot say *tiomgrade.
erinja (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 3 Gitugutu 2011 17:33:15
Balbutanto (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 3 Gitugutu 2011 20:38:58
darkweasel:I knew it was too good to be true [sigh].roint: I think I like "tiugrade" the best, but could you explain why it's preferable to "tiomgrade"? Just curious about that.Because tiugrade is a vortigo (according to PMEG terminology) of de tiu grado.
You cannot say *de tiom grado or anything similar, so you cannot say *tiomgrade.
sudanglo (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 4 Gitugutu 2011 10:49:12
You cannot say buso haltejo (as two separate words) but that doesn't mean that the word 'bushaltejo' is invalid.
Tiomgrade ke .. seems perfectly valid to me.
darkweasel (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 4 Gitugutu 2011 12:27:08
sudanglo:Hang on a minute!PMEG: Vortigo per A-finaĵo aŭ E-finaĵo
You cannot say buso haltejo (as two separate words) but that doesn't mean that the word 'bushaltejo' is invalid.
Tiomgrade ke .. seems perfectly valid to me.
Iafoje oni aŭdas formojn kiel *tielmaniere*. Ili estas eraraj. Se oni restarigas la plenan frazeton, oni vidas, ke nur tiu aŭ tia eblas: en tiu maniero, en tia maniero, sed ne *en tiel maniero*. Simile oni diru tiutage (= “en tiu tago”), ne *tiamtage*.