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God does not require .. Translation?

从 jkph00, 2011年11月11日

讯息： 21

语言: English

darkweasel (显示个人资料) 2011年11月12日上午11:58:16

horsto:
Or better:
Ne provu, faru aŭ ne faru.
I don’t like this one because the first ne could equally well refer to all three parts of the sentence.

I propose:
Aŭ faru, aŭ ne faru. Ne provu.

Miland (显示个人资料) 2011年11月12日下午3:22:34

sudanglo:Miland, I not sure that it makes any sense to say 'provi sukcesi'.
The expression is not mine. Both verbs are applied to an undefined goal. It reminds me of a dangerous assignment proposed to a secret agent in a film. The conversation went something like this:

Jakov: "Can you do it?"
'Eli': "I can try."
Jakov: "Succeed - and you've finished with 'Eli'!"

Note that I haven't said what "it" was.

horsto (显示个人资料) 2011年11月13日上午12:55:52

jchthys:
The abnormal placement was intentional—it accurately reflects the English original, for reasons obvious in the context of the quotation.
Oh, I understand. Certainly Yoda speaks a strange english, but I'm sure he would speak a perfect Esperanto, because of the easiness of the language. okulumo.gif

T0dd (显示个人资料) 2011年11月14日上午12:15:11

Miland:I would use provu for "try" : Dio ne postulas ke ni sukcesu, nur ke ni provu.
Why would you prefer provi, which has more of a connotation of "trying out", over peni, which simply means to make an effort?

Miland (显示个人资料) 2011年11月14日下午5:26:05

T0dd:Why would you prefer provi, which has more of a connotation of "trying out", over peni, which simply means to make an effort?
Butler includes "attempt" among the definitions for provi. Both could be used, however, in my view.

T0dd (显示个人资料) 2011年11月15日上午4:11:12

Miland:
T0dd:Why would you prefer provi, which has more of a connotation of "trying out", over peni, which simply means to make an effort?
Butler includes "attempt" among the definitions for provi. Both could be used, however, in my view.
To me, the distinction is clearer when you append sen to each. Senpene means "effortlessly" but senprove means...something else. Maybe if I buy something senprove I buy it without testing it first.

tommjames (显示个人资料) 2011年11月15日上午10:25:24

My understanding is provi can be used both for the sense of trying something out and attempting something, so I wouldn't have a problem with it myself. "Trying out success" seems kind of strange so I wouldn't assume someone meant that if they used it.

As for why you might prefer it, peni seems to me to have more of an emphasis on the effort you put in; Reta Vortaro has "Energie kaj lacige streĉi siajn fortojn por atingi rezulton" and also remarks that the word "pli atentigas pri streĉo kaj laciĝo". So if you think that God only wants you to try, and not necessarily to strive, I think it could be preferable.

catalina_marina (显示个人资料) 2011年11月15日上午11:16:33

jchthys:«Faru, aŭ faru ne. Ekzistas ne provi.»
Seems to me, that "try" in that quotation is a noun. Of course, you could change it to a verb, but why would you? Also, the placement of "there is no try" after "do or do not" seems relevant in context. I would suggest:
"Faru, aŭ ne faru. Ne ekzistas provo."

T0dd (显示个人资料) 2011年11月15日下午3:09:18

tommjames:As for why you might prefer it, peni seems to me to have more of an emphasis on the effort you put in; Reta Vortaro has "Energie kaj lacige streĉi siajn fortojn por atingi rezulton" and also remarks that the word "pli atentigas pri streĉo kaj laciĝo". So if you think that God only wants you to try, and not necessarily to strive, I think it could be preferable.
Hmm...that puts peni closer to strebi, I guess, in which case I'd agree that provi is a better fit. I think I was thrown off by the similarity to Spanish "probar" etc.

sudanglo (显示个人资料) 2011年11月16日上午10:57:11

Always difficult to know the will of God, but I get the impression that he doesn't like life to be easy so he probably wants an effort. Perhaps though he only wants you to 'klopodi'.

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