メッセージ: 21
言語: English
Miland (プロフィールを表示) 2011年11月12日 15:22:34
sudanglo:Miland, I not sure that it makes any sense to say 'provi sukcesi'.The expression is not mine. Both verbs are applied to an undefined goal. It reminds me of a dangerous assignment proposed to a secret agent in a film. The conversation went something like this:
Jakov: "Can you do it?"
'Eli': "I can try."
Jakov: "Succeed - and you've finished with 'Eli'!"
Note that I haven't said what "it" was.
horsto (プロフィールを表示) 2011年11月13日 0:55:52
jchthys:Oh, I understand. Certainly Yoda speaks a strange english, but I'm sure he would speak a perfect Esperanto, because of the easiness of the language.
The abnormal placement was intentional—it accurately reflects the English original, for reasons obvious in the context of the quotation.
Miland (プロフィールを表示) 2011年11月14日 17:26:05
T0dd:Why would you prefer provi, which has more of a connotation of "trying out", over peni, which simply means to make an effort?Butler includes "attempt" among the definitions for provi. Both could be used, however, in my view.
T0dd (プロフィールを表示) 2011年11月15日 4:11:12
Miland:To me, the distinction is clearer when you append sen to each. Senpene means "effortlessly" but senprove means...something else. Maybe if I buy something senprove I buy it without testing it first.T0dd:Why would you prefer provi, which has more of a connotation of "trying out", over peni, which simply means to make an effort?Butler includes "attempt" among the definitions for provi. Both could be used, however, in my view.
tommjames (プロフィールを表示) 2011年11月15日 10:25:24
As for why you might prefer it, peni seems to me to have more of an emphasis on the effort you put in; Reta Vortaro has "Energie kaj lacige streĉi siajn fortojn por atingi rezulton" and also remarks that the word "pli atentigas pri streĉo kaj laciĝo". So if you think that God only wants you to try, and not necessarily to strive, I think it could be preferable.
catalina_marina (プロフィールを表示) 2011年11月15日 11:16:33
jchthys:«Faru, aŭ faru ne. Ekzistas ne provi.»Seems to me, that "try" in that quotation is a noun. Of course, you could change it to a verb, but why would you? Also, the placement of "there is no try" after "do or do not" seems relevant in context. I would suggest:
"Faru, aŭ ne faru. Ne ekzistas provo."
T0dd (プロフィールを表示) 2011年11月15日 15:09:18
tommjames:As for why you might prefer it, peni seems to me to have more of an emphasis on the effort you put in; Reta Vortaro has "Energie kaj lacige streĉi siajn fortojn por atingi rezulton" and also remarks that the word "pli atentigas pri streĉo kaj laciĝo". So if you think that God only wants you to try, and not necessarily to strive, I think it could be preferable.Hmm...that puts peni closer to strebi, I guess, in which case I'd agree that provi is a better fit. I think I was thrown off by the similarity to Spanish "probar" etc.
