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Fundamento question

by Bruso, November 25, 2011

Messages: 43

Language: English

sudanglo (User's profile) November 28, 2011, 10:49:54 AM

Since an adverb qualifies a verb (or an adjective), it doesn't seem to me to be illogical to say 'danci estas facile'. I am describing danci not a danco.

cFlat7 (User's profile) November 28, 2011, 1:07:02 PM

sudanglo:Since an adverb qualifies a verb (or an adjective), it doesn't seem to me to be illogical to say 'danci estas facile'. I am describing danci not a danco.
Maybe the problem he has is that 'danci' sort of feels like 'dancado' in this context.

darkweasel (User's profile) November 28, 2011, 1:13:00 PM

i guess that the problem is that it's different from his first language. nothing more.

Chainy (User's profile) November 28, 2011, 1:19:18 PM

@CFlat7 and darkweasel:

His name is Bruso, by the way.

Chainy (User's profile) November 28, 2011, 1:39:13 PM

Bruso:Does anyone know enough about Slavic languages to know if this is true?
It's true for Russian: "Танцевать - это легко." The 'o' at the end of the last word is the adverbial ending as in 'facilE'.

Bruso:I know Zamenhof's father was a native Russian-speaker
Yes, Russian was a native language for Zamenhof and this had a big effect on Esperanto.

razlem (User's profile) November 28, 2011, 2:48:51 PM

Chainy:
Bruso:Does anyone know enough about Slavic languages to know if this is true?
It's true for Russian: "Танцевать - это легко." The 'o' at the end of the last word is the adverbial ending as in 'facilE'.
In your sentence, легко is describing это, not танцевать. The word легко is an adverb, but it is also the short form of лёгкий, the adjective. In this context, it is the latter.

Танцевать - это легко = To dance, it [is] easy
Я танцую легко = I dance easily

Bruso (User's profile) November 28, 2011, 4:45:44 PM

sudanglo:Since an adverb qualifies a verb (or an adjective), it doesn't seem to me to be illogical to say 'danci estas facile'. I am describing danci not a danco.
In English we say "to dance is easy" not "to dance is easily".

The reason is that "to dance" is a verbAL (not just a verb) used as a noun phrase and takes an adjective like any other noun. We would say "I dance easily" since "dance" is (merely) a verb and takes an adverb as modifier.

darkweasel:i guess that the problem is that it's different from his first language. nothing more.
True enough. So in Esperanto (and Slavic languages? All of them?) verbals take adverbs as modifiers, even when they're used as nouns? Is that the firm rule? Easy enough, but it surprised me - and the guy I linked to.

darkweasel (User's profile) November 28, 2011, 4:49:15 PM

Bruso:So in Esperanto (and Slavic languages? All of them?) verbals take adverbs as modifiers, even when they're used as nouns?
In Esperanto yes, I don’t know about Slavic languages.

Chainy (User's profile) November 28, 2011, 8:07:57 PM

darkweasel:
Bruso:So in Esperanto (and Slavic languages? All of them?) verbals take adverbs as modifiers, even when they're used as nouns?
In Esperanto yes, I don’t know about Slavic languages.
I'm trying to make sense of this. If 'danci' is used as a noun then it becomes 'dancado' or 'danco' which will then be described with an adjective, 'facilA'.

Chainy (User's profile) November 28, 2011, 8:34:02 PM

I think you might have a good point there. I often thought that a phrase such as "Было бы хорошо, если..." was similar to the usage of the adverbial ending in Esperanto 'Estus bonE, se', but now you've got me thinking that there's a kind of unsaid 'это' in the Russian sentence, which, as you said, would explain the o-ending in легко. Seems like a reasonable argument, whether it is right or not!

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