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Why the N --need help for grammar

של EoMy, 22 במאי 2012

הודעות: 15

שפה: English

EoMy (הצגת פרופיל) 22 במאי 2012, 15:52:09

Saluton,

I don't understand why this sentence carries an N as accusative but the adjective is not.

La lago estas tri metrojn profunda.

Can someone help to explain. I am much confused.

Thanks

Hyperboreus (הצגת פרופיל) 22 במאי 2012, 15:59:13

Forigite

fajrkapo (הצגת פרופיל) 22 במאי 2012, 16:03:17

EoMy:La lago estas tri metrojn profunda
as you say:
la lago estas profunda ,(how much?) ---kun//de/je---- tri metro-j,
But as you dont use any prepositions, you can substitute the preposition by -n, or use preposition, one between the two options:
la lago estas de tri metroj profunda, or
la lago estas tri metrojn profunda,
I hope it helps...

PD you could use too, la lago HAVAS tri metrojn da profundo-profundeco

Mustelvulpo (הצגת פרופיל) 22 במאי 2012, 20:56:53

The accusative ending can be used not just for measures of distance, but for measures of time as well: Mi restis tie dum tri tagoj= Mi restis tie tri tagojn. It helps make the language more concise. The accusative is one of the harder things to grasp when you begin the language- at times you don't use it where should and you use it when you shouldn't- but I promise you that within a short time it becomes clear and makes perfect sense.

RiotNrrd (הצגת פרופיל) 23 במאי 2012, 01:44:25

I think it's actually potentially confusing for beginners to be told the -n is for measures of distance, or time, or of anything, really. While it's technically true, it really is being used in measures this way just as a specific application of a more general usage: the use of the accusative -n to replace a preposition.

That's all that's happening here. It's not so much that the accusative -n is being used for measurements, per se. It's just replacing prepositions that in these cases happen to be describing measurements.

The accusative -n can be used to replace any preposition, whether it's describing a measurement or not.

RiotNrrd (הצגת פרופיל) 23 במאי 2012, 01:50:25

RiotNrrd:The accusative -n can be used to replace any preposition, whether it's describing a measurement or not.
Not that I necessarily think it should.

The replacement of prepositions by the accusative case has always struck me as somewhat inelegant, and potentially confusing. I much prefer using adverbs, which basically do the same thing without making you wonder how that intransitive verb got a direct object, look at that -n, that's really weird, oh wait, that's right, preposition, duh.

fajrkapo (הצגת פרופיל) 23 במאי 2012, 02:00:45

Anyone knows if I could say, following the example of the lake?:

La lago estas trimetre profunda. Instead of la lago estas tri metrojn profunda.

RiotNrrd can you give an example of any preposition? thanks

Hyperboreus (הצגת פרופיל) 23 במאי 2012, 02:11:36

Forigite

RiotNrrd (הצגת פרופיל) 23 במאי 2012, 03:56:40

fajrkapo:Anyone knows if I could say, following the example of the lake?:

La lago estas trimetre profunda.
Well, I don't see any reason why not. Although, to be honest, it's not an area I claim any great experience with.

fajrkapo:RiotNrrd can you give an example of any preposition? thanks
I don't understand what you are requesting.

RiotNrrd (הצגת פרופיל) 23 במאי 2012, 04:11:23

Hyperboreus:As already explained by the others, measurements are expressed by the use of the n-ending. According to PMEG, adverbs are used to describe manner, time, place and quantity. Your sentence would be:

La lago estas tri metrojn profunda. = The lake is three meters deep.
while
La lago estas trimetre profunda. = The lake is threemeterly deep...
The last one, while terrible English, is perfectly fine Esperanto*. And, as you noted, adverbs denote quantity, and we're talking about quantity, so it works.

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* And, having spoken Esperanto for a while now, I do find myself wishing on occasion that those sorts of constructions WERE good English.

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