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A question of politeness

ya Leke, 7 Julai 2012

Ujumbe: 19

Lugha: English

Leke (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 7 Julai 2012 3:42:09 alasiri

What are the levels of politeness in Esperanto? Like, if I say...

Get me a drink :: Irprenu al mi trinkaĵo.
...and...
Could you get me a drink? :: Ĉu vi irprenus trinkaĵo al mi?

Is the first considered rude? Is the second considered unnecessary? Are they even right lango.gif

Scratch (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 7 Julai 2012 3:59:26 alasiri

It all depends some on the context, but to me, it's always more polite to put a request as a question. If you request something using a command, you might be at risk of being impolite.

darkweasel (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 7 Julai 2012 4:16:41 alasiri

Your trinkaĵo lacks an -n.

erinja (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 8 Julai 2012 3:14:19 asubuhi

ir/ is totally unnecessary on "preni", and I wouldn't be completely sure of the intended meaning if someone told me to "irpreni" something.

sudanglo (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 8 Julai 2012 8:27:39 asubuhi

Mi petas, bonvolu venigi por mi ion por trinki, se tio ne estos tro granda ĝeno.

tommjames (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 8 Julai 2012 9:11:52 asubuhi

erinja:ir/ is totally unnecessary on "preni", and I wouldn't be completely sure of the intended meaning if someone told me to "irpreni" something.
I would guess they meant something like "fetch". I remember seeing irpreni in a dictionary somewhere, can't remember which one though. Think it might have been Benson. I've never really seen the word used though.

Tempodivalse (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 8 Julai 2012 3:44:33 alasiri

tommjames:
erinja:ir/ is totally unnecessary on "preni", and I wouldn't be completely sure of the intended meaning if someone told me to "irpreni" something.
I would guess they meant something like "fetch". I remember seeing irpreni in a dictionary somewhere, can't remember which one though. Think it might have been Benson. I've never really seen the word used though.
"Irpreni" sounds okay to me, I understood it readily enough (isn't it just "iri + preni"?). But there are other ways to express the same thing. Personally I like "havigi al mi" (is that used frequently though?), or maybe just "bonvolu doni".

I'm not sure that using the imperative by itself is "rude" by default. I think, in spoken Esperanto, this might also depend on the intonation used. However, in practice, I think it's generally wise to moderate it with "bonvoli", or at least precede the demand with "Mi petas,".

But I find that one beauty of Esperanto is in the nuances and levels of meaning (or, in this case, politeness) that one can get across:

*"Donu al mi trinkaĵon!" - Gimme a drink! - Abrupt, not polite in formal company.

*"Bonvolu doni al mi trinkaĵon" - Please give me a drink. - Softer, more appropriate.

*"Mi petas, donu al mi trinkaĵon" - I request, give me a drink. - About the same as the 2nd one.

*"Ĉu vi povus havigi al mi trinkaĵon?" Would you be able to get me a drink? - Very polite, maybe unnecessarily so in some situations.

Kirilo81 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 11 Julai 2012 2:44:03 alasiri

I use "irpreni" quite often as it is the equivalent of a frequent German word, "holen", which basically means "go from A to B in order to get something/someone there and bring it/him back to A".
Neither "venigi" nor "havigi" for my sense convey these nuances - but of course one can argue that their are just as clear in most contexts, I'm aware that my mother tongue influences my habits also in E-o.

sudanglo (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 11 Julai 2012 9:40:42 alasiri

I agree Erinja, I have never come across irpreni and its meaning is not obvious.

Perhaps venigi is better used for persons rather than objects.

Venigu kuraciston - fetch a doctor.
Alportu por mi trinkaĵon - fetch me a drink.

It seems unnecessary to emphasise the going part of fetching, but if so, then iru preni will do (or iru aĉeti, if relevant)

Leke (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 11 Julai 2012 10:26:16 alasiri

I got irpreni from the dictionary here on lernu. I remember in school, we were told not to use the word 'get' and to try and find a different verb to express ourselves. I thought fetch was best and irpreni was the verb that was returned. Thanks for the suggestions though ridulo.gif

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