A snake!
de Hyperboreus, 2012-aŭgusto-29
Mesaĝoj: 23
Lingvo: English
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2012-aŭgusto-29 20:39:23
Hyperboreus:Not at all:Vestitor:Unfortunately your examples are different to the original sentence, as they consist of two phrases each, each one with its own subject (John saw - a truck apporached; John sensed - someone stood). Hence they cannot be compared to the original. In your examples a "himself/itself" would unambigously refer to the inner subject.
Compare sentences like: 'John saw a truck approaching him' or 'John sensed someone standing behind him'
John saw a snake near him.
John sensed someone standing behind him.
The "standing" part is inactive, it merely describes position. It's easily recast as: "John sensed someone behind him." The '-self is still redundant. I know 'himself' would be ambiguous, that's why I remarked that it was not right in the sentence; in the first post (option a) you asked if it would be.
Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-aŭgusto-29 22:11:03
Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-aŭgusto-29 22:11:48
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2012-aŭgusto-29 22:18:26
Hyperboreus:"John saw a snake near him", and "John sensed someone behind him." Are identical forms.Vestitor:Not at all.Hyperboreus:Not at all [...]Vestitor:Unfortunately your examples are different to the original sentence, as they consist of two phrases each, each one with its own subject [...] .
Compare sentences like: 'John saw a truck approaching him' or 'John sensed someone standing behind him'
It's a bit annoying that you edited the post for your own purposes. I don't see why you asked the question about 'him' and 'himself' if you think you already know the answer. I'm a native speaker, I think I'd know how it works. But hey-ho it's an Esperanto discussion too, which is probably just as well for the purposes of total comprehension.
Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-aŭgusto-29 22:30:00
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2012-aŭgusto-29 23:01:24
"John saw a snake near him", and "John sensed someone behind him."
as identical forms. Which they most certainly are.
Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-aŭgusto-30 05:40:27
Bemused (Montri la profilon) 2012-aŭgusto-30 10:54:15
If John is alone then "John saw a snake near him." is quite acceptable and would be the way that I as a native English speaker would express the idea.
However if John is in a group of males then "John saw a snake near him ." is potentially ambiguous (which 'him' are we talking about?). "John saw a snake near himself." would be a less ambiguous way to express the idea.
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2012-aŭgusto-30 18:31:39
Bemused:The answer to your question depends on how many males are in the group.No, it wouldn't. If he was in a group he would specify the person he saw the snake next to, or the previous sentence or clause would put into context who he was referring to e.g:
If John is alone then "John saw a snake near him." is quite acceptable and would be the way that I as a native English speaker would express the idea.
However if John is in a group of males then "John saw a snake near him ." is potentially ambiguous (which 'him' are we talking about?). "John saw a snake near himself." would be a less ambiguous way to express the idea.
Peter was sitting in the armchair. John saw a snake next to him'.
The likelihood of encountering the original sentence in isolation, without surrounding context to eliminate misunderstanding is roughly...nil.
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-aŭgusto-30 19:17:50