A snake!
dari Hyperboreus, 29 Agustus 2012
Pesan: 23
Bahasa: English
Vestitor (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Agustus 2012 20.39.23
Hyperboreus:Not at all:Vestitor:Unfortunately your examples are different to the original sentence, as they consist of two phrases each, each one with its own subject (John saw - a truck apporached; John sensed - someone stood). Hence they cannot be compared to the original. In your examples a "himself/itself" would unambigously refer to the inner subject.
Compare sentences like: 'John saw a truck approaching him' or 'John sensed someone standing behind him'
John saw a snake near him.
John sensed someone standing behind him.
The "standing" part is inactive, it merely describes position. It's easily recast as: "John sensed someone behind him." The '-self is still redundant. I know 'himself' would be ambiguous, that's why I remarked that it was not right in the sentence; in the first post (option a) you asked if it would be.
Hyperboreus (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Agustus 2012 22.11.03
Hyperboreus (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Agustus 2012 22.11.48
Vestitor (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Agustus 2012 22.18.26
Hyperboreus:"John saw a snake near him", and "John sensed someone behind him." Are identical forms.Vestitor:Not at all.Hyperboreus:Not at all [...]Vestitor:Unfortunately your examples are different to the original sentence, as they consist of two phrases each, each one with its own subject [...] .
Compare sentences like: 'John saw a truck approaching him' or 'John sensed someone standing behind him'
It's a bit annoying that you edited the post for your own purposes. I don't see why you asked the question about 'him' and 'himself' if you think you already know the answer. I'm a native speaker, I think I'd know how it works. But hey-ho it's an Esperanto discussion too, which is probably just as well for the purposes of total comprehension.
Hyperboreus (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Agustus 2012 22.30.00
Vestitor (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Agustus 2012 23.01.24
"John saw a snake near him", and "John sensed someone behind him."
as identical forms. Which they most certainly are.
Hyperboreus (Tunjukkan profil) 30 Agustus 2012 05.40.27
Bemused (Tunjukkan profil) 30 Agustus 2012 10.54.15
If John is alone then "John saw a snake near him." is quite acceptable and would be the way that I as a native English speaker would express the idea.
However if John is in a group of males then "John saw a snake near him ." is potentially ambiguous (which 'him' are we talking about?). "John saw a snake near himself." would be a less ambiguous way to express the idea.
Vestitor (Tunjukkan profil) 30 Agustus 2012 18.31.39
Bemused:The answer to your question depends on how many males are in the group.No, it wouldn't. If he was in a group he would specify the person he saw the snake next to, or the previous sentence or clause would put into context who he was referring to e.g:
If John is alone then "John saw a snake near him." is quite acceptable and would be the way that I as a native English speaker would express the idea.
However if John is in a group of males then "John saw a snake near him ." is potentially ambiguous (which 'him' are we talking about?). "John saw a snake near himself." would be a less ambiguous way to express the idea.
Peter was sitting in the armchair. John saw a snake next to him'.
The likelihood of encountering the original sentence in isolation, without surrounding context to eliminate misunderstanding is roughly...nil.
sudanglo (Tunjukkan profil) 30 Agustus 2012 19.17.50