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A snake!

글쓴이: Hyperboreus, 2012년 8월 29일

글: 23

언어: English

Vestitor (프로필 보기) 2012년 8월 29일 오후 8:39:23

Hyperboreus:
Vestitor:
Compare sentences like: 'John saw a truck approaching him' or 'John sensed someone standing behind him'
Unfortunately your examples are different to the original sentence, as they consist of two phrases each, each one with its own subject (John saw - a truck apporached; John sensed - someone stood). Hence they cannot be compared to the original. In your examples a "himself/itself" would unambigously refer to the inner subject.
Not at all:

John saw a snake near him.
John sensed someone standing behind him.

The "standing" part is inactive, it merely describes position. It's easily recast as: "John sensed someone behind him." The '-self is still redundant. I know 'himself' would be ambiguous, that's why I remarked that it was not right in the sentence; in the first post (option a) you asked if it would be.

Hyperboreus (프로필 보기) 2012년 8월 29일 오후 10:11:03

Forigite

Hyperboreus (프로필 보기) 2012년 8월 29일 오후 10:11:48

Forigite

Vestitor (프로필 보기) 2012년 8월 29일 오후 10:18:26

Hyperboreus:
Vestitor:
Hyperboreus:
Vestitor:
Compare sentences like: 'John saw a truck approaching him' or 'John sensed someone standing behind him'
Unfortunately your examples are different to the original sentence, as they consist of two phrases each, each one with its own subject [...] .
Not at all [...]
Not at all.
"John saw a snake near him", and "John sensed someone behind him." Are identical forms.

It's a bit annoying that you edited the post for your own purposes. I don't see why you asked the question about 'him' and 'himself' if you think you already know the answer. I'm a native speaker, I think I'd know how it works. But hey-ho it's an Esperanto discussion too, which is probably just as well for the purposes of total comprehension.

Hyperboreus (프로필 보기) 2012년 8월 29일 오후 10:30:00

Forigite

Vestitor (프로필 보기) 2012년 8월 29일 오후 11:01:24

Hang on a minute, in that last post I put:

"John saw a snake near him", and "John sensed someone behind him."

as identical forms. Which they most certainly are.

Hyperboreus (프로필 보기) 2012년 8월 30일 오전 5:40:27

Forigite

Bemused (프로필 보기) 2012년 8월 30일 오전 10:54:15

The answer to your question depends on how many males are in the group.
If John is alone then "John saw a snake near him." is quite acceptable and would be the way that I as a native English speaker would express the idea.
However if John is in a group of males then "John saw a snake near him ." is potentially ambiguous (which 'him' are we talking about?). "John saw a snake near himself." would be a less ambiguous way to express the idea.

Vestitor (프로필 보기) 2012년 8월 30일 오후 6:31:39

Bemused:The answer to your question depends on how many males are in the group.
If John is alone then "John saw a snake near him." is quite acceptable and would be the way that I as a native English speaker would express the idea.
However if John is in a group of males then "John saw a snake near him ." is potentially ambiguous (which 'him' are we talking about?). "John saw a snake near himself." would be a less ambiguous way to express the idea.
No, it wouldn't. If he was in a group he would specify the person he saw the snake next to, or the previous sentence or clause would put into context who he was referring to e.g:

Peter was sitting in the armchair. John saw a snake next to him'.

The likelihood of encountering the original sentence in isolation, without surrounding context to eliminate misunderstanding is roughly...nil.

sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2012년 8월 30일 오후 7:17:50

Luckily, John, whose eyesight is not good, was able to see the snake next to him himself and our frantic waving and shouting was not required to save the day. John pulled out his revolver and despite being half-blind succeeded in despatching the snake with his first shot. Hurrah!

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