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Two more questions: a reverse translation and ig/iĝ

від sindyr, 12 березня 2013 р.

Повідомлення: 7

Мова: English

sindyr (Переглянути профіль) 12 березня 2013 р. 20:24:38

OK, this kind of came up in another thread in reverse, but I wanted to ask it this-way-round:

How do you say "smallish" in Esperanto?

What I Think The Answer *Might* Be (WITTAMB): malgrandeta - but perhaps another choice would make more sense?

Also, about ig/iĝ: We know that "varma" means warm.
What does "varmigi" mean? I would think it would mean "to make or cause to become warm"
What does "varmiĝi" mean? I would think it would mean "to become warm, to warm up"
Assuming those are correct, then what does "varmi" mean?

This is what I think:

If adjective that can fit a blank like this: La kafo estas ______.
"varma" fits in that blank: La kafo estas varma.
Therefor, one can 'collapse" "estas varmas" into a single word, "varmas" that means the same thing - "is warm"

So, if all this is correct, then:
varmigi = to warm something, needs a direct object (Mi varmigis la kafon = I warmed the coffee)
varmiĝi = to become warm, doesn't take a direct object (La kafon varmiĝis = the coffee warmed up)
varmi = to be warm (already), no direct object (La kafon varmis = the coffee was warm)

Therefor the difference between varmi and varmiĝi is that varmi is to be in a state of being warm, whereas varmiĝi is to enter a state of being warm from a state where it wasn't. Varmi relates to a state of warmth, but varmiĝi relates to a transition *into* a state of warmth.

Does that make sense? Or does Esperanto have a more logical way than that? (Or a less logical way, for that matter.)

RiotNrrd (Переглянути профіль) 12 березня 2013 р. 21:28:35

sindyr:This is what I think...
You think correctly.

Vespero_ (Переглянути профіль) 12 березня 2013 р. 21:58:35

It even works with colours.

sindyr (Переглянути профіль) 12 березня 2013 р. 22:15:03

Excellent! Wow! Can't believe I got it in one! ridulo.gif

yyaann (Переглянути профіль) 12 березня 2013 р. 23:03:18

varmiĝi = to become warm, doesn't take a direct object (La kafon varmiĝis = the coffee warmed up)
varmi = to be warm (already), no direct object (La kafon varmis = the coffee was warm)
In both cases "kafo" shouldn't take the accusative.
"La kafo varmiĝis"
"La kafo varmis"

okulumo.gif

sindyr (Переглянути профіль) 12 березня 2013 р. 23:25:20

yyaann:
varmiĝi = to become warm, doesn't take a direct object (La kafon varmiĝis = the coffee warmed up)
varmi = to be warm (already), no direct object (La kafon varmis = the coffee was warm)
In both cases "kafo" shouldn't take the accusative.
"La kafo varmiĝis"
"La kafo varmis"

okulumo.gif
Umm... yeah, that was stupid of me, grin.

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 13 березня 2013 р. 12:50:07

How do you say "smallish" in Esperanto?
The use of -et to modify mal- words is quite logical, but searching the Tekstaro I found it used only with a few of them, and no examples of malgrandeta.

For smallish I might be tempted to say iom malgranda, or ne tre alta or some other circumlocution.

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