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Havi used the same in English

de Alkanadi, 2014-aŭgusto-14

Mesaĝoj: 12

Lingvo: English

Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-14 08:47:47

Is the English word have used in the same way that havi is used?

For example, does this sentence make sense?
Provu havi multan optimismon

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-14 09:00:27

Is the English word have used in the same way that havi is used?
No. For a start 'have' in English is an auxiliary (I have finished) and in phrases like have a bath, have a go, and others where the idea is not possession, Esperanto wouldn't use 'havi'.
Provu havi multan optimismon
Provu esti pli optimisma

tommjames (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-14 09:02:40

I see nothing wrong with that sentence. "Havu kuraĝon", "havu fidon", "havu certecon" are all valid and may be used instead of "estu optimisma", "estu kuraĝa", etc. Whether havi or esti is more suitable will probably depend on the context.

Note however the English "have" is used in a few different ways to "havi". We have the particples, where "I have read a book" would be "mi estas leginta libron" not "mi havas leginta libron". Then there's "I have to go" which would be "mi devas iri", and not "mi havas iri". There's also something like "have it sent immediately", which would be "tuj sendigu ĝin", not "havu ĝin sendita". There are probably other example too.

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-14 09:12:20

Yes, Tom, there are metaphorical uses of have. Havas la rajton, ne havis la kuraĝon, havas deziron, ne havas sufiĉajn sciojn ktp, but would you say havu optimismon?

tommjames (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-14 09:13:45

sudanglo:Yes, Tom there are metaphorical uses of have. But would say havu optimismon?
I'd probably prefer to say "estu optimisma" in most cases. I would just answering the question about whether use of "havu" makes sense.

Rejsi (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-16 00:13:55

I see nothing wrong with saying it either way. In fact, using "havi" in this manner is similar to Spanish.

BoriQa (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-18 12:00:45

Rejsi:I see nothing wrong with saying it either way. In fact, using "havi" in this manner is similar to Spanish.
I agree (Spanish is my first language). Both forms sound correct. There is a gentle difference in their meaning.

Provu havi multan optimismon. >> Try to have a lot of optimism.

Provu esti pli optimisma. >> Try to be more optimistic.

robbkvasnak (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-18 13:29:04

In English, "have" is also used in a sense of obligation (I have to leave now). In Esperanto this idea is expressed with "devi" (Mi devas nun foriri).
Many people ask me how I have acquired to use of so many languages. One of my basic principles is that I never try to translate verbatim from one language to the next. This is one of the excellent lessons of studying Esperanto. Esperanto helps us separate ideas from words - sort of like Chomsky's "deep structure" - we must understand what we want to say and then formulate it in Esperanto which has far fewer idiomatic expressions than other languages. Though some may view this as poverty, I view it as a great strength that helps me sort out ideas and then put them into "plain language".
I just translated a 9-page text on linguistic philosophy from German into Esperanto and found that the author(s) had made some small linguistic slip-ups in their original text. On first read, it sounded really good in German but upon closer examination, there were logical incongruities. Esperanto helps me "cut through the weeds".

Rejsi (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-18 14:41:57

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BoriQa (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-18 17:14:10

I believe robbkvasnak was just trying to show Alkanadi, yet another flavour of the verb "have" in Esperanto, the "devi" sense.

I'm not sure robbkvasnak was questioning the sample sentences.

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