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Using -es as a possessive marker

de SciBerC, 2014-aŭgusto-22

Mesaĝoj: 41

Lingvo: English

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-26 10:28:46

The conjunction of two grammatical endings has been used by some grammatical theorists in their account of how Esperanto word building functions. So Senpova is explained as senpov(o)a. or matenmanĝa as matenmanĝ(o)a.

However as Erinja has pointed out, it is not part of normal Esperanto. In normal Esperanto you are expected to work out what the implied first finaĵa element of any such pair in a derived word would be.

In the case of lupa this would be interpreted as lup(o)a, so you can't drive a wedge between that and the normal form.

It is true that sometimes a finaĵo can be embedded in a compound word as in for example nepagipova or posteulo.

It also true that sometimes there can be more than one analysis. So vestejo can be vest(i)ejo and also vest(o)ejo.

However in the vast majority of cases the root in the derived words means what the headword in the dictionary listing means.

lupo is the headword in the dictionary, so lupa means lup(o)a and not one Esperantist in a thousand would see it otherwise.

If you can find me a convincing example where lupa means lup(i)a or lup(e)a, I'll stand corrected.

cellus (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-27 10:28:16

As well as you can say "mia pomo" you might say "la vira pomo". But you will mostly see this construction in "La londona esperanto-klubo".

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-27 12:15:26

La vira pomo = the masculine apple

Sounds a bit weird.

SciBerC (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-28 06:21:48

erinja:La vira pomo = the masculine apple

Sounds a bit weird.
I'd read that as 'the manly apple', however, I strongly feel that 'la vira pomo' is the man's apple, or that it has a quality of a man, the most logical being ownership..

nornen (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-28 06:23:30

SciBerC:
erinja:La vira pomo = the masculine apple

Sounds a bit weird.
I'd read that as 'the manly apple', however, I strongly feel that 'la vira pomo' is the man's apple, or that it has a quality of a man, the most logical being ownership..
Except the fact that ownership is not a quality of a man...

SciBerC (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-28 06:30:27

nornen:
Except the fact that ownership is not a quality of a man...
That is true.. I am just a bit silly though lango.gif

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-28 13:02:04

Is not la vira pomo the Adam's apple - the laryngeal protuberance? - la pomo de Adamo or la Adama pomo.

You could say viaj vortoj are not words that have the quality of you. So what?

Ownership may not be a quality of a man like virility, or not being able to multi-task. But la Zamenhofa teksto is surely la teksto de Zamenhof.

Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-28 13:29:54

sudanglo:But la Zamenhofa teksto is surely la teksto de Zamenhof.
Can you say Teksto Zamenhofa in this word order? Or, would this change the meaning?

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-28 14:36:26

I'd say that zamenhofa teksto is text of the type that Zamenhof wrote. I can well imagine myself using the term "zamenhofa lingvo" to describe Esperanto's linguistic features at the time of Zamenhof, exemplified by the way he spoke the language. I wouldn't use it to describe figuratively the exact words he used. In English I'd say "the language of Zamenhof's time" or "the language as Zamenhof spoke it", and not "Zamenhof's language" (of course Zamenhof's language is Esperanto itself; this term has nothing to do with linguistic usage).

sergejm (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-28 16:04:04

text of the type that Zamenhof wrote is Zamenhofeca teksto. IMHO, Zamenhofa teksto is text that Zamenhof wrote himself.

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