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Laughing - Prepositions

od Alkanadi, 03. september 2014

Sporočila: 10

Jezik: English

Alkanadi (Prikaži profil) 03. september 2014 07:42:47

In English we laugh at people and about jokes. How would you say this in Esperanto?

I am laughing at Mr. Bean:
1 - Mi ridas pri sinjoro Beano
2 - Mi ridas je sinjoro Beano
3 - Mi ridas el sinjoro Beano
4 - Mi ridas cxar sinjoro Beano
5 - Mi ridas al sinjoro Beano

Or is there a better option that I didn't include.

sergejm (Prikaži profil) 03. september 2014 08:04:07

Alkanadi:In English we laugh at people and about jokes. How would you say this in Esperanto?

I am laughing at Mr. Bean:
1 - Mi ridas pri sinjoro Beano
2 - Mi ridas je sinjoro Beano
3 - Mi ridas el sinjoro Beano
4 - Mi ridas cxar sinjoro Beano
5 - Mi ridas al sinjoro Beano

Or is there a better option that I didn't include.
search at tekstaro.com with Serĉesprimo: "rid\VF\W(pri|je|el|cxar|al)":
found: ridi je, ridi pri, ridi al.
if you search simple "rid\VF", found more:
ridi ĉe, ridi ion/iun.

Alkanadi (Prikaži profil) 03. september 2014 08:16:50

sergejm:
search at tekstaro.com with Serĉesprimo: "ridVFW(pri|je|el|cxar|al)":
Awesome website. Thank you. I bookmarked it. This is really awesome for looking up conventions in the language!

BoriQa (Prikaži profil) 03. september 2014 20:14:47

Another one might be:

Mi ridas sinjoron Beano.

With the accusative on "sinjoron", but not on "Beano"; according to PMEG.

EldanarLambetur (Prikaži profil) 04. september 2014 15:16:19

The online Plena Ilustrita Vortaro de Esperanto suggests using "ĉe" or "je", and that using the accusative "n" is archaic. It also suggests that "ridaĉi" (using the -aĉ suffix) expresses: "to unpleasantly/insincerely/maliciously laugh (at)", which is perhaps what you're after.

For some reason, my first thought was to follow the pattern of "to be angry at/with...". Which would be "koleri kontraŭ..." I believe. But I can't see anywhere reflecting that use. Despite the fact that "kontraŭ" seems to me to be the preposition most aligned with the meaning of this use of "at".

erinja (Prikaži profil) 05. september 2014 02:06:41

"koleri je" is the usual idiom for being angry at someone (versus "koleri pri" to be angry about something)

kontraŭ wouldn't be an obvious choice for me. It is normally used for "against" or "in exchange for".

sudanglo (Prikaži profil) 05. september 2014 09:59:54

Eldanar, there's plenty of support in the Tekstaro for koleri kontraŭ in the sense of to be angry with/angry at.

Hit scores are 102 for koler/i/a/o kontraŭ versus 10 for koler/i/a/o je.

Obviously in a sentence like He became very angry at the sight of ..., you would use 'je'.

As regards 'ridi je' versus 'ridi ĉe' (laugh at) it's pretty evenly divided. My personal preference would be for 'je'.

He laughed at the wedding - ĉe or je?

EldanarLambetur (Prikaži profil) 05. september 2014 13:59:39

sudanglo:Eldanar, there's plenty of support in the Tekstaro for koleri kontraŭ in the sense of to be angry with/angry at.[...]
Ahh yes, I meant that I could find no usages of "ridi kontraŭ"!

erinja:"koleri je" is the usual idiom for being angry at someone (versus "koleri pri" to be angry about something)

kontraŭ wouldn't be an obvious choice for me. It is normally used for "against" or "in exchange for".
That seems strange! You would probably know far better than me, but I've never come across "koleri je" in anything that I've read. And certainly find tonnes more hits for "koleri kontraŭ" in Tekstaro (and other variations of koler-). PIV also supports the "kontraŭ" usage.

It's this that makes it feel appropriate for "ridi" to me. If being angry at someone is "against" them, then so could be laughing. I guess to me being angry/laughing "against" someone feels more semantically accurate; it's not done "with" them, it's done against them.

BoriQa (Prikaži profil) 06. september 2014 14:35:41

sudanglo:He laughed at the wedding - ĉe or je?
Nice one!

ĉe -> if the meaning intended is that he laughed while physically at the wedding

je -> if instead, he laughed because he found that the wedding was funny or a total joke. He didn't even have to be present at the wedding at all.

Christa627 (Prikaži profil) 06. september 2014 19:36:20

I have no expertise on this topic, but I know that 'ridas pri' appears in Gerda Malaperis.

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