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Translation Q

של Miland, 29 בדצמבר 2007

הודעות: 35

שפה: English

Miland (הצגת פרופיל) 29 בדצמבר 2007, 21:20:34

In section 36 of Richardson's text, which deals with the problem of developing a phonetic script in the place of the complex system of ideographs that make the Chinese language difficult, we have the following - my Q. is how to translate the phrase I have put in italics:

'Dum la pasintaj jaroj, en la laboro de likvido de analfabeteco oni utiligis la fonetikan alfabeton en certaj regionoj..'

I wonder whether an is a typo for some suffix like pra or ne to indicate the 'liquidation' of a non-alphabetical system.

mnlg (הצגת פרופיל) 30 בדצמבר 2007, 08:55:28

I'm not sure I understand your question. My understanding is that "analfabeteco" is the state regarding "being illiterate" (analfabeta = analphabet, illiterate). To avoid illiteracy, a phonetic alphabet has been put to use. Therefore, the "an-" is not a prefix, at least not in my opinion.

Happy new year to everyone!

novatago (הצגת פרופיל) 30 בדצמבר 2007, 10:16:29

mnlg:Therefore, the "an-" is not a prefix, at least not in my opinion.
Saluton. In my opinion "an" is a prefix. In fact it isn't an opinion because is evident what it is. Actually is not "an" but "a" with an "n" because "alphabet" begins with a vowel. Is the same prefix as in spanish word "anormal" ("abnormal" in english). That prefix means "lack" in these words. I think Miland is right and the use of the that prefix is a mistake and the writer should write the word with "sen" prefix ("senalfabeteco") or maybe the "mal" prefix ("malalfabeteco"). I'd use "sen".

Ĝis, Novatago.

Miland (הצגת פרופיל) 30 בדצמבר 2007, 14:48:47

Thanks, this makes sense now. The whole thrust of the passage made me think that analfabeteco referred to the problem of the system of Chinese ideographs. I've just found out from Butler's dictionary that analfabeta means illiterate. PIV 2005 superscripts the word Z so that Zamenhof seems to have been responsible for this anomaly!

But Butler gives the alternative nelegivulo which seems more in harmony with the spirit of E-o.

billpatt1942 (הצגת פרופיל) 30 בדצמבר 2007, 16:27:22

okulumo.gif okulumo.gif Perhaps the "an" in analfabeteco is a prefix, but the prefix is Greek meaning lack of or non-existence of something. Compare the chemical words anion and cation. In an Esperanto-English Dictionary, by Montague C. Butler, published by the British Esperanto Association in 1967, analfabeteco is listed as a seperate word from alfabeto (i.e., not constructed from alfabeto), and it is listed as a neologism. Butler uses all capital letters, stars, and daggers to indicate Universala Vortaro of the Fundamento, Oficiala Aldono, and words in the Fundamento which are not in the UV. Further, in this dictionary, he says "If it is not in capitals, it is not officialized, but can be used with discretion". Analfabeteco is not capitalized. He defines analfabeteco as illiteracy. Analfabeto means an illiterate person, and Butler compares this to nelegivulo. As an adjective it means illiterate.

Hope this is helpful. I don't mean to be pedantic, but I am anyway okulumo.gif

Filu (הצגת פרופיל) 30 בדצמבר 2007, 16:32:24

billpatt1942:Hope this is helpful. I don't mean to be pedantic, but I am anyway okulumo.gif
No you're not pedantic! And I found your comment interesting. Even though I knew about what was meant by "analfabeteco", for French uses "analphabète" for "illiterate", I learnt something about this word in Esperanto from your post.

sal.gif

mnlg (הצגת פרופיל) 30 בדצמבר 2007, 22:33:10

To all who replied: I am aware, of course, that an- is a prefix in a certain set of languages. The original question however related to Esperanto morphology and I tried to keep my reply on that theme.

Miland:But Butler gives the alternative nelegivulo which seems more in harmony with the spirit of E-o.
I'd rather say "neleg(i)povulo". -iv- is not an official suffix, and in my opinion it is perfectly replaced by -pov-.

rosto (הצגת פרופיל) 1 בינואר 2008, 19:19:34

Although -iv- is not an official suffix, you can find it in dictionaries. Why not to use it or some other inofficial which is in a dictionary? Is Esperanto a live language or dead one?

oskar12 (הצגת פרופיל) 1 בינואר 2008, 20:51:25

Skribu esperante. Mi nekonprenas kaj mi interesigxas pri tiu cxi temon.
Oskar

airpath (הצגת פרופיל) 1 בינואר 2008, 21:15:39

Esperante…
Anglalingvo bonvolu skribigxi en la angla sektio de la diskutejo. Se vi ne sxatas aux ne komprenas la anglalingvo, iru malsejma iu; sed tiu interesas vin, komencu novan diskut-pagxon en Esperanta sekcio de la diskutejo. Mi skribas tiu car eksistas multoj de ni ke ne povas kompreni Esperanton (aux tre bone, kiel mi ke komencas). Dankon.

In English…
Please speak English in the English section of the forum. If you wouldn't like that, or can't understand English, pleas go to the different bit of the Forum; but if you're interested, please start a new discussion thread in the Esperanto section of the forum. I write this because some of us are not very good at composing esperanto discussion messages or understanding them, and like a place to speak our own language until we are accustoemd to it. Thank you.

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