Due to the fact that I didn't make it very clear that it was never my intention to barge into this forum an force you guys on adopting a new self-invented Esperanto rule, I edit this opening post to express myself more clearly. This was what I should have typed, but I didn't want a boring post, I wanted a fun post with a poll attached. Anyway, here is the boring version:

Bonan tagon esperantistoj,

I am learning esperanto now for almsot 40 days in a row, 20 minutes a day. When learning the language, a thought entered my mind and it keeps coming back:
I think "esti" is a great verb. it's roots shows the origin, and I like the "latin feel" of it. However, I can imagine that in conversations (oral use of the word), esti could be a little bit too long to be comfortable for fluent speech.

I don't want to be that regular komencinto that just barges into a forum and proposed a change, without really studying the language and proposes something "contraŭfundamento". That's why I waited a few weeks before I was confident that this wasn't against the basic rules (it's only an abbreviation, and after all, the ending "-o" is often omitted in songs, as I saw on youtube).

Therefore, I was thinking... It's maybe useful to simplify "esti" to "i" for conversational Esperanto. I'm wondering, has it ever been proposed? If so, how was the reception of this proposal? are people using this variant of "esti"?

Some examples to make it clear how it could be used:
I am - Mi 'as
You were - Vi 'is
He will be - Li 'os
Be brave - 'U brava
Let us be quiet - Ni 'u kvietaj
They would go - Ili 'us iri

I am aware of the fact that in most cases, the use of esti can be omitted (like "Bravu" instead of "'U brava" or "Ni kvietas" instead of "Ni 'u kvietaj" )

I added a poll just for fun, to gauge the general feeling towards the use of this abbreviation. Don't think about it as a proposal to change Esperanto right away. If it's ever adopted, it will be the result of a gradual change by the speakers themselves. After all, if we want Esperanto to be a living language, it should be subject to change from time to time.

Original post

Hi people,

I know, again, a komencinto that proposes something "contrafundamento"
But I was wondering, did people already propose this and if yes, is it adopted somewhat or just rejected?

I think (mostly when speaking) that the verb "esti" i pretty long.
Why not abbreviate it to the verb "i" ?

Some examples:

I am - Mi 'as
You were - Vi 'is
He will be - Li 'os
Be brave - 'U brava
Let us be quiet - Ni 'u kvieta
They would go - Ili 'us iri

Thoughts?

dnaleor:Hi people,

I know, again, a komencinto that proposes something "contrafundamento"
But I was wondering, did people already propose this and if yes, is it adopted somewhat or just rejected?

I think (mostly when speaking) that the verb "esti" i pretty long.

"long" to whom? In Spanish, between "ser" and "estar" there are 50 total forms, only 7 of which are one syllable. Most are 3 syllables, and 8 of them are even 4 syllables. I don't think 6 2-syllable words is too much to ask.

orthohawk:

dnaleor:Hi people,

I know, again, a komencinto that proposes something "contrafundamento"
But I was wondering, did people already propose this and if yes, is it adopted somewhat or just rejected?

I think (mostly when speaking) that the verb "esti" i pretty long.

"long" to whom? In Spanish, between "ser" and "estar" there are 50 total forms, only 7 of which are one syllable. Most are 3 syllables, and 8 of them are even 4 syllables. I don't think 6 2-syllable words is too much to ask.

compared to english, dutch, german, french; most of them are only one syllable
EN: am, are, is
NL: ben, bent, is, zijn
GE: bin, is, ist, sind
FR: suis, es, est, sont

estas/ estis/ estos/ ... are all 2 syllables

I've never seen or heard it abbreviated to the extent you suggest, and I would tend to avoid it just because of the potential for a listener to misunderstand the verbal ending as part of the preceding word.

However, I have seen (rarely) short forms that omit the initial "e". For example: "Mi 'stas" instead of "Mi estas". I'm not sure how accepted this is, though, or if it must follow a word ending in a vowel or something.

Edit: By the way, that last example of yours would not have the verb "esti" at all. I'm pretty sure "They would go" is simply "Ili irus". Also, "kvieta" should be plural if it describes "ni".

It' s a rather ridiculous proposal. Estas is one of the shortest verbs. How could anyone know what the missing root part was? Mi 'as could be anything from Mi estas, to Mi ŝatas. The abbreviations also don't flow well in normal speech, they're full of glottal stops.

dnaleor:
Be brave - 'U brava
Let us be quiet - Ni 'u kvieta
They would go - Ili 'us iri

These last three can be expressed as follows:

Bravu
Ni kvietu
Ili irus

It's shorter, readily understood, and perfectly grammatical. Esperanto's esti might be relatively long for people from northern Europe, but the language's concision in other areas largely makes up for it. So give yourself a chance to explore its possibilities.

Let me quote some verses from the „Sinjoro Tadeo” by Adam Mickiewicz, translated into Esperanto by Antoni Grabowski in 1916–1918. If you didn't read it: SPOILER ALERT. Also, totally do sometime, because it's really great: like, the original is great and the translation is magnificent. But, onto the topic:

I:152–153:Li anstataŭas mastron; se mastro ’as fore
Gastojn li mem akceptas kaj amuzas kore;

I:262–263:En kastel’ ’as vestlibo, bone konservita,
Arkaĵo sendifekta, unu mur’ fendita,

I:717–718:Diris: „Vere, Rejento, sendube kaj certe,
Stumpul’ ’as bela hundo; se li kaptas lerte…”

III:604–607:„Amiko”, diris Grafo, „estas belnaturo:
Formo, fon’, materio, sed anim’ — inspiro
Kiun levas alsupre fantaziflugiro
Kaj apogas reguloj; gusto ’as poluro.”

VI:543–544:Macjek, simplul’ malriĉa, ’is plej estimata
Ne nur sabrul’, per sia verget’, famigata,

VII:316–319:„En distrikt’ — balaaĵo? Kiu ’as malriĉa
Mortigint’ de bravulo? Farinte rabaĵon,
Kiu de heredulo forŝiras restaĵon?
Kiu li? Ĉu mi diru?” — „Fripono Soplica!”

VIII:77–78:Davida veturilo iom pli levita,
Longtimone, al polus-stelo ’as turnita;

X:459–462:„Mi ’as Jacek Soplica”… Ĉe tiu vortsono
Ŝlosist’ paliĝis, klinis sin per korpduono
Antaŭfleksite staris, pendis unukrure
Kiel monta ŝtonego haltigita kure;

X:514–517:Sed min doloris tia ŝerco pikincita:
Al mi, junul kuraĝa, mond’ ’as malfermita,
En lando, kie ĉiu nobele naskato
Estas, kiel sinjoroj, kronokandidato!

I read that somewhere else in poetry one can find these ’is, ’as, ’os shortenings. However, although I've found other examples by Grabowski, I didn't find other authors using these forms.

But, anyhow, they should be definitely avoided for any non-artistic purposes. There's no real demand for shortening two-syllable words to one-syllable ones. To quote PMEG here: “The risk of misunderstanding is too great, because one could hear the lone ending as a part of the preceding word. En kastel’ ’as vestlibo can sound like En kastelas vestlibo. Stelo ’as turnita can sound like stelas turnita.” They're useful when the rhyme and rhythm is important, but apart from poetry, often one can shorten these examples even further, by attaching the ending to the other word in the sentence. So mi estas forta can become mi fortas, estu kvieta could be kvietu &c.

These standalone endings could also be understood as nouns like as’ (with omitted noun ending). That's particularly bad, because (1) there are already words aso, Oso, Iso and (2) under current rules all of these could be constructed to mean an instance of usage of such an ending (so uso be a verb with -us).

It's a non-starter.

I mean this in a friendly way -- your time would be better spent studying Esperanto rather than coming up with proposals for changing it. As you indicated in your original message, you already know know that these beginner proposals are very poorly received, and I think your initial assumption was backed up by the response you've received. This was fun! Now maybe spend some time learning the language instead of reforming it.

(also -- kontraŭfundamenta, with a k and a ŭ. People will take you more seriously if you spell the words correctly)

Please learn the language before attempting to reform it.

Think of how callous and arrogant it would be to (say) barge into a French-learning forum and propose substantial changes to the French language. You would be laughed off the site. The same is true for Esperanto.

erinja:It's a non-starter. I mean this in a friendly way -- your time would be better spent studying Esperanto rather than coming up with proposals for changing it.

Tempodivalse:Please learn the language before attempting to reform it. Think of how callous and arrogant it would be to (say) barge into a French-learning forum and propose substantial changes to the French language.

Yeah… Plena Manlibro de Esperanta Gramatiko can cover this topic (even twice), poets can exercise this construction, Kalocsay can write about it in his Lingvo Stilo Formo, based on his lecture at the Oxford Congress, but… yeah… it's a non-started and it's arrogant to ask about it. -_-