Middle/Medieval Esperanto
от Acobjum, 17 июля 2015 г.
Сообщений: 53
Язык: English
Acobjum (Показать профиль) 17 июля 2015 г., 6:02:04
Tangi (Показать профиль) 17 июля 2015 г., 7:49:49
It is also counterproductive, as Esperanto has to have only one style, and archaisms, dialectisms, or colloquialisms have no place in it.
orthohawk (Показать профиль) 17 июля 2015 г., 11:23:34
Tangi:Sadly the author of Esperanto paid zero attention to morphology, creating it, so it is impossible to reconstruct hypothetical earlier forms without going into conlanging too much.I would hardly consider a 18-form participial system "zero attention"....
It is also counterproductive, as Esperanto has to have only one style, and archaisms, dialectisms, or colloquialisms have no place in it.
or the word building system
Tempodivalse (Показать профиль) 17 июля 2015 г., 12:48:55
It is also counterproductive, as Esperanto has to have only one style, and archaisms, dialectisms, or colloquialisms have no place in it.Esperanto is not as varied in terms of what the linguists call "register" as other langauges - slang and dialects are difficult to convey - but it seems like a bad oversimplification to say there is only "one style".
Colloquial speech is indeed possible, and quite distinct from more formal or poetic language use. The language used by the Akademio in an official text is not the language used in a casual TEJO meetup or coffee shop setting.
There are also a fair amount of archaisms - just look at the Fundamenta Krestomatio or another very early text - e.g. arhxaja, Hxinujo, pomujo, elrigardi (in the sense of aspekti), etc. This is to be expected after around 125 years.
rikforto (Показать профиль) 17 июля 2015 г., 13:53:51
Tangi:It is also counterproductive, as Esperanto has to have only one style, and archaisms, dialectisms, or colloquialisms have no place in it.This is Esperanto's worst feature, I think. Somewhere along the lines "thou shalt not make changes to established Esperanto" became for some "if we squeeze a bit harder, maybe we can get rid of all joy!" I think any reader sufficiently versed in standard Esperanto should be able to understand a work of fiction detailing a fictional history of the language is in fact fiction. Given the disproportionate interest in linguistics among Esperantists, such an innovative use of modern Esperanto would probably get a fair few readers if it was reasonably well done and sewn into a larger work.
robbkvasnak (Показать профиль) 17 июля 2015 г., 17:12:32
Acobjum (Показать профиль) 17 июля 2015 г., 20:01:49
Tangi:Sadly the author of Esperanto paid zero attention to morphology, creating it, so it is impossible to reconstruct hypothetical earlier forms without going into conlanging too much.This contributes nothing to what I asked. I simply asked if anyone has developed a Medieval form of Esperanto for the purpose of storywriting in a Medieval setting. Arcaicam Esperantom was developed as the Old/Ancient Esperanto and thus a beginning point to which a Medieval form would develop in a fictional setting.
It is also counterproductive, as Esperanto has to have only one style, and archaisms, dialectisms, or colloquialisms have no place in it.
Tempodivalse (Показать профиль) 17 июля 2015 г., 20:21:42
This contributes nothing to what I asked. I simply asked if anyone has developed a Medieval form of Esperanto for the purpose of storywriting in a Medieval setting. Arcaicam Esperantom was developed as the Old/Ancient Esperanto and thus a beginning point to which a Medieval form would develop in a fictional setting.I apologise for helping take the conversation off-topic. I just couldn't refrain from calling out a bad factual error from another user.
As far as I am aware, there is nothing besides Arcaicam Esperantom. The closest you can come is write in an archaically poetic Esperanto style (use of obsolete lexicon and spellings, somewhat cumbersome language, kind of like what you might see in the first Esperanto translation of the Iliad).
Sample:
Kantu, diino, koleron de la Peleido Aĥilo,
Ĝin, kiu al la Aĥajoj kaŭzis mizerojn sennombrajn
Kaj en Aidon deĵetis multegajn animojn kuraĝajn
De herouloj kaj faris korpojn iliajn akiro
...
Zeŭso eniris palacon sian, kaj ekleviĝinte
Iris la dioj renkonte al patro ilia, neniu
Kuraĝiĝis atendi lin: ĉiuj renkonte aliris.
The distinct "flavour" of this language, as compared to modern Esperanto, is immediately apparent.
(The Krestomatio has a lot of bad poetry, but this translation of the Iliad is brilliant.)
orthohawk (Показать профиль) 17 июля 2015 г., 20:49:21
Acobjum:on the other hand, what we term "old english" was spoken exactly in the Middle Ages (granted, the early erpoch thereof), so why not just use Araicam?Tangi:Sadly the author of Esperanto paid zero attention to morphology, creating it, so it is impossible to reconstruct hypothetical earlier forms without going into conlanging too much.This contributes nothing to what I asked. I simply asked if anyone has developed a Medieval form of Esperanto for the purpose of storywriting in a Medieval setting. Arcaicam Esperantom was developed as the Old/Ancient Esperanto and thus a beginning point to which a Medieval form would develop in a fictional setting.
It is also counterproductive, as Esperanto has to have only one style, and archaisms, dialectisms, or colloquialisms have no place in it.
Acobjum (Показать профиль) 17 июля 2015 г., 20:50:58
Tempodivalse:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Esperanto Could this count as a Medieval form?This contributes nothing to what I asked. I simply asked if anyone has developed a Medieval form of Esperanto for the purpose of storywriting in a Medieval setting. Arcaicam Esperantom was developed as the Old/Ancient Esperanto and thus a beginning point to which a Medieval form would develop in a fictional setting.I apologise for helping take the conversation off-topic. I just couldn't refrain from calling out a bad factual error from another user.
As far as I am aware, there is nothing besides Arcaicam Esperantom. The closest you can come is write in an archaically poetic Esperanto style (use of obsolete lexicon and spellings, somewhat cumbersome language, kind of like what you might see in the first Esperanto translation of the Iliad).
Sample:
Kantu, diino, koleron de la Peleido Aĥilo,
Ĝin, kiu al la Aĥajoj kaŭzis mizerojn sennombrajn
Kaj en Aidon deĵetis multegajn animojn kuraĝajn
De herouloj kaj faris korpojn iliajn akiro
...
Zeŭso eniris palacon sian, kaj ekleviĝinte
Iris la dioj renkonte al patro ilia, neniu
Kuraĝiĝis atendi lin: ĉiuj renkonte aliris.
The distinct "flavour" of this language, as compared to modern Esperanto, is immediately apparent.
(The Krestomatio has a lot of bad poetry, but this translation of the Iliad is brilliant.)