Tin nhắn: 19
Nội dung: English
jefusan (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:19:07 Ngày 22 tháng 7 năm 2015
sudanglo:Dankon. I assumed we were talking about "trovi" in the (as you put it) "stata trovo" sense.Nornen:never in accusativeSometimes trovi is used in a estimating sense (taksado), and sometimes trovi is used in a locating sense.
Mi trovis la libron interesa
Ĉiu trovos ion interesan en ĉi tiu libro.
In Temp's sentence we are clearly talking about as it was when he found it (malkovri).
So why not gardi ĝin, kian mi trovis ĝin?
From la Tekstaro:
Post mallonga tempo alvenas du havenaj soldatoj, tiregantaj individuon, kiun ili trovis duonvivan pro malsobraĵo en ia drinkejo
Now it wasn't the soldiers opinion. They just found him in a half-dead state.
jefusan (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:34:47 Ngày 22 tháng 7 năm 2015
Mi trovis oran tason.
Kian tason vi trovis?
Mi trovis ĝin.
Kian vi trovis ĝin?
jefusan (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:57:53 Ngày 22 tháng 7 năm 2015
Li havas [tian] kapon, kian vi ne trovos en la tuta mondo.*drops mic*
nornen (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 03:28:21 Ngày 23 tháng 7 năm 2015
sudanglo:Maybe you should not have quoted me out of context. I said that "Predicatives (predicate nouns) are never in accusative.".Nornen:never in accusativeSometimes trovi is used in a estimating sense (taksado), and sometimes trovi is used in a locating sense.
Mi trovis la libron interesa
Ĉiu trovos ion interesan en ĉi tiu libro.
In your first example we have a predicative adjective and behold: no accusative. In your second example we have an attributive adjective and behold: it agrees in case.
Mi trovis la unuan (attr) libron interesa (pred).
This has nothing to do with "estimating" or "locating" sense.
tommjames (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 08:34:33 Ngày 23 tháng 7 năm 2015
nornen:I said that "Predicatives (predicate nouns) are never in accusative.Note however, that in fact they sometimes are.
orthohawk (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 11:08:20 Ngày 23 tháng 7 năm 2015
tommjames:But they are. "Predicate adjective" by definition refers to the subject of the sentence. All of those examples in the "Eble tamen n-finajxo" section of Bertilo's work are adjectives referring to an object pronoun, thus are not predicate adjectives. They do become predicates in the second sentence, the ones with the clauses.nornen:I said that "Predicatives (predicate nouns) are never in accusative.Note however, that in fact they sometimes are.
nornen (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 19:11:11 Ngày 23 tháng 7 năm 2015
tommjames:Even the author of the grammar book doubts that those adjuncts are predicative:nornen:I said that "Predicatives (predicate nouns) are never in accusative.Note however, that in fact they sometimes are.
Iafoje ĉi tia A-finaĵa priskribo de objekto sence respondas al kiam-frazo, kaj montras staton, kiu ne dependas de la ĉefverba ago. En tiaj okazoj oni povas opinii, ke temas ne pri vera perverba priskribo, sed pri iaspeca komplemento. Tiam oni povas ja uzi N-finaĵon. Tia aldono de N povas iafoje doni nuancan diferencon:Back to the verb trovi: "Mi trovis la hundon mortintan." and "Mi trovis la hundon mortinta." are apples and oranges.
Tempodivalse (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 19:37:35 Ngày 23 tháng 7 năm 2015
Mi preferas kukojn dolchaj - I like cakes sweet
Mi preferas kukojn dolchajn - I like sweet cakes
Not really a difference as far as output meaning is concerned.
But again, this doesn't appear to apply to my initial example sentence.
jefusan (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 15:49:00 Ngày 27 tháng 7 năm 2015
Tempodivalse:I think my example from PMEG above does, though.
But again, this doesn't appear to apply to my initial example sentence.