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Confusion between tio and tiu

של Alkanadi, 9 בספטמבר 2015

הודעות: 10

שפה: English

Alkanadi (הצגת פרופיל) 9 בספטמבר 2015, 14:09:58

I just read this: Tio ĉi estas sinjoro Smith.

Why is it tio? Shouldn't it be tiu because it is a person. Is there a simple way to determine which should be used?

The author is William Sol Benson

erinja (הצגת פרופיל) 9 בספטמבר 2015, 14:57:59

Some context would help. There are occasions when you would refer to a person with "tio" but it would usually deal with distinguishing between a person and something that is possibly an inanimate object.

Something like "What's that shadow? [it could be a door] - That is John Smith, entering the room" etc.

jefusan (הצגת פרופיל) 9 בספטמבר 2015, 15:23:14

Yeah... maybe in a kid's book, where you're just imitating a child's tendency to point at everything.

What is that?
That is an apple.
And what is that?
That is a man.

Generally, though, the rule is that if tiu doesn't have a noun it modifies (whether explicit or implied), then it refers to a person, whereas tio is used for a thing.

Alkanadi (הצגת פרופיל) 9 בספטמבר 2015, 15:34:42

erinja:Some context would help. There are occasions when you would refer to a person with "tio" but it would usually deal with distinguishing between a person and something that is possibly an inanimate object.

Something like "What's that shadow? [it could be a door] - That is John Smith, entering the room" etc.
Here is the context:
http://eduinf.waw.pl/esp/lern/uem/0028.php

Christa627 (הצגת פרופיל) 11 בספטמבר 2015, 21:29:14

What strikes me as odd is saying "Sinjorino {so-and-so} estas fraŭlino"; it seemed to me that Sinjorino was for a married woman.

And speaking of striking, this isn't a very politically correct illustration ridego.gif:

externalImage.png

Vestitor (הצגת פרופיל) 11 בספטמבר 2015, 23:47:13

It probably isn't politically correct, but the large number of cheeky kids I encounter could do with a dose of it.

sudanglo (הצגת פרופיל) 12 בספטמבר 2015, 11:23:27

Sinjorino can also be a respectful form of address (See PIV definitions).

In English we don't always insist on specifying the marital status eg 'Would the lady at the back of the room please close the door'; 'Ladies and gentlemen will you please take your seats'

I agree though that it seems a little jarring for modern ears to say S-ino Smith estas frauxlino. Perhaps this would have sounded less strange in the 1930's when the course was published

sudanglo (הצגת פרופיל) 12 בספטמבר 2015, 11:42:22

Alkanadi, think of it as what you see in the picture is ...

zugunruhe (הצגת פרופיל) 12 בספטמבר 2015, 22:02:23

I feel like in this situation, tio is referring the image you see, rather than the people, because we're looking at an illustration which is, ultimately, an inanimate object.

erinja (הצגת פרופיל) 13 בספטמבר 2015, 01:45:38

zugunruhe:I feel like in this situation, tio is referring the image you see, rather than the people, because we're looking at an illustration which is, ultimately, an inanimate object.
I agree.

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