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Correlative help. Tiel vs Tia vs Kiel vs Kia

od uživatele nbalive2005 ze dne 14. listopadu 2015

Příspěvky: 6

Jazyk: English

nbalive2005 (Ukázat profil) 14. listopadu 2015 1:25:29

I'm still having problems with these little correlatives unfortunately malgajo.gif I hope somebody could help me find the way ridulo.gif

If i want to say : In countries like America, France... is it :

En landoj tia/tiaj/tiel/kiel/kiaj Usono, Francujo...

If i want to say : What makes me happy is the opportunity to learn with other people

Kio/Tio/Tiu? Mi gxojigi estas la oportuno por lerni Esperanto kun aliaj personoj

If i want to say: You are so lucky!/You have such good luck!

How would i say that?

If i want to say: We must think of ways to stop such horrific things before they happen again

Ni devas pensi pri manieroj per halti tiel/tiajn/kiel/kia? terurajn aferojn antaux gxi okazos denove.

I'm really confused and I would appreciate your help ridulo.gif

Dankon! ridulo.gif

nornen (Ukázat profil) 14. listopadu 2015 1:58:00

En landoj kiel (ekzemple) Usono, Francujo... (conjunction)

(Tio,) kio min ĝojigas, estas la oportuno lerni Esperanton kune kun aliaj homoj. (unanimate relative pronoun)

Vi estas tiel feliĉa. (adverb) (nota bene: not tiom)
Kiel feliĉa vi estas! (adverb) (compare Fundamento: "Ha, kiel bele!" )

Ni devas elpensi manierojn [por] haltigi tiajn teruraĵojn, antaŭ ol ili okazas/os denove. (adjective)

Vestitor (Ukázat profil) 14. listopadu 2015 9:37:40

Are 'kune' and kun' necessary in the same sentence that way?

kun in ...la oportuno lerni Esperanton kun aliaj homoj, already indicates that it's being done with other people.

nornen (Ukázat profil) 14. listopadu 2015 16:34:42

Vestitor:Are 'kune' and kun' necessary in the same sentence that way?

kun in ...la oportuno lerni Esperanton kun aliaj homoj, already indicates that it's being done with other people.
They surely are not necessary. However, I was following Z's pattern of "Venu kune kun la patro. (FE)".

opalo (Ukázat profil) 14. listopadu 2015 16:44:22

Kune kun is a set phrase which emphasizes togetherness.

Mi laboras kun aliaj homoj. I work with other people.
Mi laboras kune kun aliaj homoj. I work in collaboration with other people.

Vestitor (Ukázat profil) 14. listopadu 2015 22:30:35

The second sentence (in both Esperanto and English) seems to me tautological. Co-(l)-laborate = work together. You can't collaborate with no people, so Mi laboras kun aliaj homoj already has that implication.

Collaborate is kunlabori and all the meaning is already there, adding kune seems redundant to me, though it's hard to write 'together with' any other way.

To emphasise co-operation, i.e. actually working together productively with others, rather than just working at the same task in the presence of colleagues, well...I'd use the word co-operate.

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