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Correlative help. Tiel vs Tia vs Kiel vs Kia

by nbalive2005, November 14, 2015

Messages: 6

Language: English

nbalive2005 (User's profile) November 14, 2015, 1:25:29 AM

I'm still having problems with these little correlatives unfortunately malgajo.gif I hope somebody could help me find the way ridulo.gif

If i want to say : In countries like America, France... is it :

En landoj tia/tiaj/tiel/kiel/kiaj Usono, Francujo...

If i want to say : What makes me happy is the opportunity to learn with other people

Kio/Tio/Tiu? Mi gxojigi estas la oportuno por lerni Esperanto kun aliaj personoj

If i want to say: You are so lucky!/You have such good luck!

How would i say that?

If i want to say: We must think of ways to stop such horrific things before they happen again

Ni devas pensi pri manieroj per halti tiel/tiajn/kiel/kia? terurajn aferojn antaux gxi okazos denove.

I'm really confused and I would appreciate your help ridulo.gif

Dankon! ridulo.gif

nornen (User's profile) November 14, 2015, 1:58:00 AM

En landoj kiel (ekzemple) Usono, Francujo... (conjunction)

(Tio,) kio min ĝojigas, estas la oportuno lerni Esperanton kune kun aliaj homoj. (unanimate relative pronoun)

Vi estas tiel feliĉa. (adverb) (nota bene: not tiom)
Kiel feliĉa vi estas! (adverb) (compare Fundamento: "Ha, kiel bele!" )

Ni devas elpensi manierojn [por] haltigi tiajn teruraĵojn, antaŭ ol ili okazas/os denove. (adjective)

Vestitor (User's profile) November 14, 2015, 9:37:40 AM

Are 'kune' and kun' necessary in the same sentence that way?

kun in ...la oportuno lerni Esperanton kun aliaj homoj, already indicates that it's being done with other people.

nornen (User's profile) November 14, 2015, 4:34:42 PM

Vestitor:Are 'kune' and kun' necessary in the same sentence that way?

kun in ...la oportuno lerni Esperanton kun aliaj homoj, already indicates that it's being done with other people.
They surely are not necessary. However, I was following Z's pattern of "Venu kune kun la patro. (FE)".

opalo (User's profile) November 14, 2015, 4:44:22 PM

Kune kun is a set phrase which emphasizes togetherness.

Mi laboras kun aliaj homoj. I work with other people.
Mi laboras kune kun aliaj homoj. I work in collaboration with other people.

Vestitor (User's profile) November 14, 2015, 10:30:35 PM

The second sentence (in both Esperanto and English) seems to me tautological. Co-(l)-laborate = work together. You can't collaborate with no people, so Mi laboras kun aliaj homoj already has that implication.

Collaborate is kunlabori and all the meaning is already there, adding kune seems redundant to me, though it's hard to write 'together with' any other way.

To emphasise co-operation, i.e. actually working together productively with others, rather than just working at the same task in the presence of colleagues, well...I'd use the word co-operate.

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