Aportes: 16
Idioma: English
Alkanadi (Mostrar perfil) 10 de febrero de 2016 06:49:06
Li skuas la kapon, he shakes his head.
La patro estas alta, Father is tall.
Mi donis ĝin al la patro, I gave it to Father.
Tsahraf (Mostrar perfil) 10 de febrero de 2016 08:06:25
More precisely it would be:
"I wash the face."
"He shakes the head."
"The father is tall."
"I gave it to the father."
"I wash my face." would be: "Mi lavas mian vizagxon."
"he shakes his head." = "Li lavas lian kapon."
"Father is tall." = "Patro estas alta."
"I gave it to Father." = "Mi donis gxin al Patro."
Miland (Mostrar perfil) 10 de febrero de 2016 08:46:33
Tsahraf:More precisely it would be..Patro with a capital P is nowadays more often used for divinity, and la is commonly used before vizaĝon and kapon in such contexts, though the possessives wouldn't be wrong.
Kirilo81 (Mostrar perfil) 10 de febrero de 2016 09:08:22
E.g. for the first example Polish says "Myję twarz" (lavas-mi vizaĝon), German has "Ich wasche mir das Gesicht" (mi lavas al-mi la vizaĝon), English has "I wash my face" (mi lavas mian vizaĝon), so there are plenty of models Esperanto can follow.
For me "mi lavas la/mian vizaĝon" sounds most natural and simple.
opalo (Mostrar perfil) 10 de febrero de 2016 09:08:51
The idea, I think, is that pronouns are fussy and unnecessary for body parts; on the other hand, you will sometimes see Li lavis al si la manojn.
"Li lavas lian kapon."Should be sian.
Abeneezer (Mostrar perfil) 10 de febrero de 2016 16:21:56
Probably you are right, but people reading this should keep in mind that they are both syntactically correct and semantically different."Li lavas lian kapon."Should be sian.
nornen (Mostrar perfil) 10 de febrero de 2016 16:31:51
Tsahraf:It is quite good!Actually not.
More precisely it would be:
"I wash the face."
"He shakes the head."
"The father is tall."
"I gave it to the father."
"I wash my face." would be: "Mi lavas mian vizagxon."
"he shakes his head." = "Li lavas lian kapon."
"Father is tall." = "Patro estas alta."
"I gave it to Father." = "Mi donis gxin al Patro."
While in English it is pragmatic to use body parts of the subject with a possessive pronoun (I wash my face), it is pragmatic in Esperanto to use the definite article in these cases (Mi lavas la vizaĝon), like several other languages do. Hence "Li skuas la kapon" is a perfectly fine translation of "He is shaking his head" and vice versa.
Alkanadi (Mostrar perfil) 14 de febrero de 2016 06:07:43
I think that sia or sian is more popular in modern usage, which indicates that Esperanto usage may have been influenced by English speakers.
sergejm (Mostrar perfil) 16 de febrero de 2016 09:49:22
Alkanadi:Li skuas la kapon, he shakes his head.Li skuas la kapon = Li kapneas - He shakes his head to say "no".
Li balancas la kapon = Li kapjesas - He shakes his head to say "yes".
(If you believe to ReVo).
What such difficulties are needed for?
erinja (Mostrar perfil) 16 de febrero de 2016 16:44:17
Alkanadi:I copied and pasted these right out of a grammar book from the early days of Esperanto. I posted this thread to see how much Esperanto has changed over the years.I think Esperanto has had little influence from English speakers. Native English speakers are not a large contingent in the world of Esperanto speakers who are skilled enough to influence general use.
I think that sia or sian is more popular in modern usage, which indicates that Esperanto usage may have been influenced by English speakers.
A ton of languages use a reflexive like si or sia in cases like the ones you cite. English actually makes a lot less use of the reflexive than many Romance languages do, partially because of its flexibility with using the same verb transitively and intransitively.