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Is this correct?

Alkanadi,2016年2月10日の

メッセージ: 16

言語: English

Alkanadi (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月10日 6:49:06

Mi lavas la vizaĝon, I wash my face.

Li skuas la kapon, he shakes his head.

La patro estas alta, Father is tall.

Mi donis ĝin al la patro, I gave it to Father.

Tsahraf (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月10日 8:06:25

It is quite good!

More precisely it would be:

"I wash the face."
"He shakes the head."
"The father is tall."
"I gave it to the father."

"I wash my face." would be: "Mi lavas mian vizagxon."
"he shakes his head." = "Li lavas lian kapon."
"Father is tall." = "Patro estas alta."
"I gave it to Father." = "Mi donis gxin al Patro."

Miland (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月10日 8:46:33

They all look fine to me.

Tsahraf:More precisely it would be..
Patro with a capital P is nowadays more often used for divinity, and la is commonly used before vizaĝon and kapon in such contexts, though the possessives wouldn't be wrong.

Kirilo81 (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月10日 9:08:22

There need not be a full mapping between the languages for every detail of expression, so you don't have to translate everything literally, even if the result is correct in the target language.
E.g. for the first example Polish says "Myję twarz" (lavas-mi vizaĝon), German has "Ich wasche mir das Gesicht" (mi lavas al-mi la vizaĝon), English has "I wash my face" (mi lavas mian vizaĝon), so there are plenty of models Esperanto can follow.
For me "mi lavas la/mian vizaĝon" sounds most natural and simple.

opalo (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月10日 9:08:51

Yes, you are allowed to use la. Zamenhof seems to have used both the article and the possessive pronouns indifferently in these cases. La patro is used for "Father" in Marta.

The idea, I think, is that pronouns are fussy and unnecessary for body parts; on the other hand, you will sometimes see Li lavis al si la manojn.
"Li lavas lian kapon."
Should be sian.

Abeneezer (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月10日 16:21:56

"Li lavas lian kapon."
Should be sian.
Probably you are right, but people reading this should keep in mind that they are both syntactically correct and semantically different.

nornen (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月10日 16:31:51

Tsahraf:It is quite good!

More precisely it would be:

"I wash the face."
"He shakes the head."
"The father is tall."
"I gave it to the father."

"I wash my face." would be: "Mi lavas mian vizagxon."
"he shakes his head." = "Li lavas lian kapon."
"Father is tall." = "Patro estas alta."
"I gave it to Father." = "Mi donis gxin al Patro."
Actually not.
While in English it is pragmatic to use body parts of the subject with a possessive pronoun (I wash my face), it is pragmatic in Esperanto to use the definite article in these cases (Mi lavas la vizaĝon), like several other languages do. Hence "Li skuas la kapon" is a perfectly fine translation of "He is shaking his head" and vice versa.

Alkanadi (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月14日 6:07:43

I copied and pasted these right out of a grammar book from the early days of Esperanto. I posted this thread to see how much Esperanto has changed over the years.

I think that sia or sian is more popular in modern usage, which indicates that Esperanto usage may have been influenced by English speakers.

sergejm (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月16日 9:49:22

Alkanadi:Li skuas la kapon, he shakes his head.
Li skuas la kapon = Li kapneas - He shakes his head to say "no".
Li balancas la kapon = Li kapjesas - He shakes his head to say "yes".
(If you believe to ReVo).
What such difficulties are needed for?

erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月16日 16:44:17

Alkanadi:I copied and pasted these right out of a grammar book from the early days of Esperanto. I posted this thread to see how much Esperanto has changed over the years.

I think that sia or sian is more popular in modern usage, which indicates that Esperanto usage may have been influenced by English speakers.
I think Esperanto has had little influence from English speakers. Native English speakers are not a large contingent in the world of Esperanto speakers who are skilled enough to influence general use.

A ton of languages use a reflexive like si or sia in cases like the ones you cite. English actually makes a lot less use of the reflexive than many Romance languages do, partially because of its flexibility with using the same verb transitively and intransitively.

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