Съобщения: 41
Език: English
thyrolf (Покажи профила) 19 май 2016, 07:20:23
erinja:"Eniri" is transitive, for example (but "foriri" is intransitive" )Certe vi ankaŭ ofte miras, kia multo eblas en Esperanto. Mi eĉ legis en iu libro transitivan "foriron", do: mi foriras la arbaron. (Simile al "mi forlasas la arbaron"). Laŭ kiu regulo tio estu malpermesenda?
Ahm, ok, English:
You certainly often are surprised, what a multitude is possible in Esperanto. In some book I read a transitive "foriri", e.v. "mi foriras la arbaron" (I go out of the wood). (Similar to "mi forlasas la arbaron". I leave the wood). What rule should forbide this?
Alkanadi (Покажи профила) 19 май 2016, 07:47:17
thyrolf:I remember seeing something like that before also, but I don't remember where.erinja:..."foriri" is intransitive...In some book I read a transitive "foriri", e.v. "mi foriras la arbaron" (I go out of the wood).
I don't know if Mi foriras la arbaron is correct but it seems logical since we can say Mi iras la arbaron (I think Arbaron is a place so no preposition is required).
I wasn't able to find anything from the tekstaro where foriri was followed by an accusative noun.
nornen (Покажи профила) 19 май 2016, 08:16:52
Alkanadi:I wasn't able to find anything from the tekstaro where foriri was followed by an accusative noun.Try again:
Zamenhof:Mi foriras la vojon de la tuta mondo; sed vi tenu vin forte kaj estu viro.
dbob (Покажи профила) 19 май 2016, 08:54:38
spreecamper:Example of 'al'-movement: 'Do ni povas iri al tien.'He didn't say "al tien". He said: "Do ni povas iri aŭ tien, aŭ tien."
"Al" by itself already shows movement and you don't use the accusative N after it.
If I say "mi iros al tien" that would mean "mi iros al al tie" ---> Rolvortetoj, kiuj mem montras direkton.
Miland (Покажи профила) 19 май 2016, 08:59:04
Alkanadi:Does a garden (ĝardeno) count as a named place ending with o?If it is not a named garden, No.
Alkanadi (Покажи профила) 19 май 2016, 09:26:42
Miland:I got this from the Kellerman text. Is this a mistake?Alkanadi:If it is not a named garden, No.Miland:Does a garden (ĝardeno) count as a named place ending with o?Alkanadi:Where do we draw the line between what is a place and what isn't?You may use the accusative with a named place ending in -o.
Li iris ĝardenon.
If the above is correct, what is the difference between a place and non-place?
erinja (Покажи профила) 19 май 2016, 11:50:08
Alkanadi:Sorry, I totally forgot the fact that you like to support your arguments with examples that are either non sequiturs or things that price the opposite.erinja:...you are missing the fact that "al" is being used as a prefixAm I missing this fact?
If you can't determine how a restaurant is a place but a table or a desk is not, then I am afraid you're either beyond help or one of these most persistent trolls we've ever had.
As my last blast before I excuse myself from this thread as well, I would suggest that if Google maps marks something as a location and can tell you how to get somewhere, it's a place. Enlightenment, tables, and uncle Fred are not on that list. However, it will show you many restaurants, cities, and buildings.
,..or you could save yourself some time and just always use a directional "al" rather than a accusative, and never worry again whether something is a place or not, because "al" is always correct, for people, cities, and tables.
Miland (Покажи профила) 19 май 2016, 12:11:51
Alkanadi:I got this from the Kellerman text. Is this a mistake?Yes. I would regard the Kellerman text as an example of a use destined to fall into oblivion. I doubt whether you'll find many things like that in the tekstaro.
Li iris ĝardenon.
Alkanadi (Покажи профила) 19 май 2016, 13:56:58
erinja:I would suggest that if Google maps marks something as a location and can tell you how to get somewhere, it's a place.Really. I am shocked by that statement because Kellerman (the text that you previously said was popular among Esperantists) uses this sentence to specifically illustrate the accusative of direction:
Li iris ĝardenon
...a table or a desk is not...A table is a place where you eat. A desk is a place where you study. What is so weird about that?
You don't have to reply to this since it seems that you are getting exhausted.
Alkanadi (Покажи профила) 19 май 2016, 14:04:16
Miland:Interesting. So Kellerman made a mistake. I didn't see that one coming.Alkanadi:I got this from the Kellerman text. Is this a mistake?Yes. I would regard the Kellerman text as an example of a use destined to fall into oblivion. I doubt whether you'll find many things like that in the tekstaro.
Li iris ĝardenon.
I only found one similar example in the tekstaro:
Li, doktoro, tiel vestite venis restoracion...
So it literally has to be a named place? Suppose there is a park without a name, it wouldn't count as a place? I think there must be a bit of grey area.