讯息： 41
语言: English
thyrolf (显示个人资料) 2016年5月19日上午7:20:23
erinja:"Eniri" is transitive, for example (but "foriri" is intransitive" )Certe vi ankaŭ ofte miras, kia multo eblas en Esperanto. Mi eĉ legis en iu libro transitivan "foriron", do: mi foriras la arbaron. (Simile al "mi forlasas la arbaron"). Laŭ kiu regulo tio estu malpermesenda?
Ahm, ok, English:
You certainly often are surprised, what a multitude is possible in Esperanto. In some book I read a transitive "foriri", e.v. "mi foriras la arbaron" (I go out of the wood). (Similar to "mi forlasas la arbaron". I leave the wood). What rule should forbide this?
Alkanadi (显示个人资料) 2016年5月19日上午7:47:17
thyrolf:I remember seeing something like that before also, but I don't remember where.erinja:..."foriri" is intransitive...In some book I read a transitive "foriri", e.v. "mi foriras la arbaron" (I go out of the wood).
I don't know if Mi foriras la arbaron is correct but it seems logical since we can say Mi iras la arbaron (I think Arbaron is a place so no preposition is required).
I wasn't able to find anything from the tekstaro where foriri was followed by an accusative noun.
dbob (显示个人资料) 2016年5月19日上午8:54:38
spreecamper:Example of 'al'-movement: 'Do ni povas iri al tien.'He didn't say "al tien". He said: "Do ni povas iri aŭ tien, aŭ tien."
"Al" by itself already shows movement and you don't use the accusative N after it.
If I say "mi iros al tien" that would mean "mi iros al al tie" ---> Rolvortetoj, kiuj mem montras direkton.
Alkanadi (显示个人资料) 2016年5月19日上午9:26:42
Miland:I got this from the Kellerman text. Is this a mistake?Alkanadi:If it is not a named garden, No.Miland:Does a garden (ĝardeno) count as a named place ending with o?Alkanadi:Where do we draw the line between what is a place and what isn't?You may use the accusative with a named place ending in -o.
Li iris ĝardenon.
If the above is correct, what is the difference between a place and non-place?
erinja (显示个人资料) 2016年5月19日上午11:50:08
Alkanadi:Sorry, I totally forgot the fact that you like to support your arguments with examples that are either non sequiturs or things that price the opposite.erinja:...you are missing the fact that "al" is being used as a prefixAm I missing this fact?
If you can't determine how a restaurant is a place but a table or a desk is not, then I am afraid you're either beyond help or one of these most persistent trolls we've ever had.
As my last blast before I excuse myself from this thread as well, I would suggest that if Google maps marks something as a location and can tell you how to get somewhere, it's a place. Enlightenment, tables, and uncle Fred are not on that list. However, it will show you many restaurants, cities, and buildings.
,..or you could save yourself some time and just always use a directional "al" rather than a accusative, and never worry again whether something is a place or not, because "al" is always correct, for people, cities, and tables.
Miland (显示个人资料) 2016年5月19日下午12:11:51
Alkanadi:I got this from the Kellerman text. Is this a mistake?Yes. I would regard the Kellerman text as an example of a use destined to fall into oblivion. I doubt whether you'll find many things like that in the tekstaro.
Li iris ĝardenon.
Alkanadi (显示个人资料) 2016年5月19日下午1:56:58
erinja:I would suggest that if Google maps marks something as a location and can tell you how to get somewhere, it's a place.Really. I am shocked by that statement because Kellerman (the text that you previously said was popular among Esperantists) uses this sentence to specifically illustrate the accusative of direction:
Li iris ĝardenon
...a table or a desk is not...A table is a place where you eat. A desk is a place where you study. What is so weird about that?
You don't have to reply to this since it seems that you are getting exhausted.
Alkanadi (显示个人资料) 2016年5月19日下午2:04:16
Miland:Interesting. So Kellerman made a mistake. I didn't see that one coming.Alkanadi:I got this from the Kellerman text. Is this a mistake?Yes. I would regard the Kellerman text as an example of a use destined to fall into oblivion. I doubt whether you'll find many things like that in the tekstaro.
Li iris ĝardenon.
I only found one similar example in the tekstaro:
Li, doktoro, tiel vestite venis restoracion...
So it literally has to be a named place? Suppose there is a park without a name, it wouldn't count as a place? I think there must be a bit of grey area.