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How would one say "don't have to" in Esperanto?

от LiamBeaman, 21 мая 2016 г.

Сообщений: 52

Язык: English

LiamBeaman (Показать профиль) 21 мая 2016 г., 22:30:11

I have been confused by this topic ever since I entered the Esperanto community.

I would like to know how to say the English phrase, "I don't have to," as in "I'm not required to," but the closest thing I could come up with is the Esperanto phrase "Mi ne devas." However, I think this is more accurately translate as "I mustn't," which isn't the right thing to say.

Is there a particular word or word combination in Esperanto that would translate to "don't have to?"

Vestitor (Показать профиль) 21 мая 2016 г., 22:49:39

'Have to' and 'must' are the same thing here. That means you can render Mi ne devas as: I mustn't...' or 'I don't have to...'

It only requires the addition of another verb like e.g. iri or aŭskulti to see what devas means.

Balbutanto (Показать профиль) 21 мая 2016 г., 23:48:17

LiamBeaman:I have been confused by this topic ever since I entered the Esperanto community.

I would like to know how to say the English phrase, "I don't have to," as in "I'm not required to," but the closest thing I could come up with is the Esperanto phrase "Mi ne devas." However, I think this is more accurately translate as "I mustn't," which isn't the right thing to say.

Is there a particular word or word combination in Esperanto that would translate to "don't have to?"
The answer above will do the trick, but you can also say something like: Ne estas ende, ke mi... (plus a verb with a -u ending).

Fenris_kcf (Показать профиль) 22 мая 2016 г., 0:02:33

The confusion most likely arises due to the fact that when using "must" in English a negation affects the main verb instead of the inflected modal verb (like in all other cases). It's a little hard to explain in English since the whole modal verb system is kind of broken, but let me try:

"i cannot sleep."

In this phrase the negated verb is "can". The writing "cannot" shows this. Negating "sleep" would result in a different meaning and is probably expressed in a total different way, e.g.: "i can do the following thing: not sleep." (~ "i can stay awake."). I know some will say that "i can not sleep." is a way to express this, but there seems to be a controversy about that ...

However in the case of must it's the other way round:

"i must not sleep."

... means: "i must do the following thing: not sleep.". Now negating "must" requires a different phrase like e.g. "i don't have to / need to sleep.".

In Esperanto one can negate both main verb and modal verb, but usually only the modal verb is negated. So "mi ne devas fari tion." indeed means "i don't have to do this.".

imd (Показать профиль) 22 мая 2016 г., 1:24:20

I would answer a bit differently. First, "do not have to" and "must not" don't mean the same thing; "must not" and "have to not" do. "Ne devas" means "not have to"; "devas ne" means "have to not," i.e. "must not." Examples:
Vi ne devas manĝi la kukon.
You don't have to eat the cake.
but
Vi devas ne manĝi la kukon.
You have to not eat the cake.
You mustn't eat the cake.

Kristal (Показать профиль) 22 мая 2016 г., 1:39:16

Fenris_kcf:... let me try:

"i cannot sleep."

In this phrase the negated verb is "can"...

However in the case of must it's the other way round:

"i must not sleep."

... Now negating "must" requires a different phrase like e.g. "i don't have to / need to sleep.".

In Esperanto one can negate both main verb and modal verb, but usually only the modal verb is negated. So "mi ne devas fari tion." indeed means "i don't have to do this.".
Yes, good reasoning; but, I would complain the problem is from thinking "have to" means what it says. These two words, together, form an expression that means something to me only because I grew up speaking American-English. I later learned "have to" does not directly word-for-word translate into other languages. I learned to substitute the meaning of my thoughts for the habitual use of a phrase. For example, I would say "you need not do something," instead of saying, "You do not have to do that."

The words: have, do, & to; these words cause me to stumble in my learning of languages every time that I try to compare the words with phrases and expressions in colloquial use in English.

RiotNrrd (Показать профиль) 22 мая 2016 г., 15:59:23

Ne necesas ke mi tion fari.

robbkvasnak (Показать профиль) 22 мая 2016 г., 16:10:22

Mi ne bezonas fari tion

Alkanadi (Показать профиль) 22 мая 2016 г., 16:55:56

robbkvasnak:Mi ne bezonas fari tion
I think this works well. Just curious, why bezonas instead of devas?

LiamBeaman (Показать профиль) 23 мая 2016 г., 4:31:45

robbkvasnak:Mi ne bezonas fari tion
The word "bezonas" in Esperanto means that someone actually is in need of something. However, the word "devas" translates to must in English.

To say I am in need of doing that sounds very strange...

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