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Prepositions

od uživatele gianich73 ze dne 1. září 2016

Příspěvky: 24

Jazyk: English

gianich73 (Ukázat profil) 1. září 2016 18:17:20

Hi there!

Prepositions are always difficult for me in any language. I just saw in www.transparent.com that they are presenting the sentence: "Ŝi estas alergia al fragoj" and I wonder whether this is a literal translation from English "She is allergic to strawberries". Shouldn't it be "Ŝi estas alergia je fragoj"? Thank you/dankon. I have not seen the new website.

Gian

opalo (Ukázat profil) 1. září 2016 22:05:03

Je, al, pri, and kontraŭ are all fine.

In fact (imo) you could just say Ŝi alergias fragojn.

To have an allergic reaction: reagi (alergie) kontraŭ/al/pro k.t.p.

Vestitor (Ukázat profil) 1. září 2016 22:55:21

I rather agree with the OP. I don't think it helps at all for there to be so much equivalence in prepositions (some of which often seems suspect). I could well ask:why is 'ŝi estas alergia por fragoj' not equally valid?

I'd much rather that prepositions were fixed.

gianich73 (Ukázat profil) 2. září 2016 12:50:11

Yes, prepositions are a nightmare. I am glad to know that I am not alone on this ship.
Dankon.

bartlett22183 (Ukázat profil) 2. září 2016 18:21:15

Even within one larger language community prepositions can be a nightmare. For example, among English speakers in various parts of the world, some say "different to," some say "different from," and some say "different than." Yes, I agree that for an international language such as Esperanto, use of prepositions should be fixed insofar as reasonably possible in order to help avoid misunderstanding.

opalo (Ukázat profil) 2. září 2016 23:49:42

But how often does different from/to/than actually cause a misunderstanding?

The general rule is: use the preposition which feels most logical. If you're hesitating, use je.

bartlett22183 (Ukázat profil) 3. září 2016 18:14:37

opalo:But how often does different from/to/than actually cause a misunderstanding?

The general rule is: use the preposition which feels most logical. If you're hesitating, use je.
Certainly for educated native speakers of varying dialects of English, different from/to/than does not cause any problem. It is only that an unfamiliar usage might seem very slightly odd, but there is no misunderstanding. I speculate that something might be similar among native speakers of different dialects of relatively widespread languages such as French.

However, when it comes to an international language such as Esperanto, learned and used by persons of highly dissimilar native tongues, prepositions (and some native languages do not even have prepositions) among their native habits vary so widely that in my estimation there is a genuine risk of misunderstanding if the meanings and specified uses are not set forth well. And as another respondent has remarked, je should only be used as a last resort.

gianich73 (Ukázat profil) 3. září 2016 19:24:16

bartlett22183:Even within one larger language community prepositions can be a nightmare. For example, among English speakers in various parts of the world, some say "different to," some say "different from," and some say "different than." Yes, I agree that for an international language such as Esperanto, use of prepositions should be fixed insofar as reasonably possible in order to help avoid misunderstanding.
Misunderstanding and misuse.
Dankon

gianich73 (Ukázat profil) 3. září 2016 19:28:19

Roch:"Je" is suppose to be used in last resort... when no other can be used, here it's the contrary, too many could be...

Then if someone should pick one, let say to avoid disregard. I'd pick al, alergias al fragoj. Just to avoid je.
But "al" is not correct, because al implies direction of movement. Allergies do not go in any direction. I am confused.

gianich73 (Ukázat profil) 3. září 2016 19:30:22

bartlett22183:
opalo:But how often does different from/to/than actually cause a misunderstanding?

The general rule is: use the preposition which feels most logical. If you're hesitating, use je.
Certainly for educated native speakers of varying dialects of English, different from/to/than does not cause any problem. It is only that an unfamiliar usage might seem very slightly odd, but there is no misunderstanding. I speculate that something might be similar among native speakers of different dialects of relatively widespread languages such as French.

Yes, in Spanish is like that. It sounds funny to me when other Spanish speakers choose a different word or preposition to what I am used, but I still understand in the majority of the cases. In some cases, I may misunderstand.

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