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Prepositions

від gianich73, 1 вересня 2016 р.

Повідомлення: 24

Мова: English

gianich73 (Переглянути профіль) 1 вересня 2016 р. 18:17:20

Hi there!

Prepositions are always difficult for me in any language. I just saw in www.transparent.com that they are presenting the sentence: "Ŝi estas alergia al fragoj" and I wonder whether this is a literal translation from English "She is allergic to strawberries". Shouldn't it be "Ŝi estas alergia je fragoj"? Thank you/dankon. I have not seen the new website.

Gian

opalo (Переглянути профіль) 1 вересня 2016 р. 22:05:03

Je, al, pri, and kontraŭ are all fine.

In fact (imo) you could just say Ŝi alergias fragojn.

To have an allergic reaction: reagi (alergie) kontraŭ/al/pro k.t.p.

Vestitor (Переглянути профіль) 1 вересня 2016 р. 22:55:21

I rather agree with the OP. I don't think it helps at all for there to be so much equivalence in prepositions (some of which often seems suspect). I could well ask:why is 'ŝi estas alergia por fragoj' not equally valid?

I'd much rather that prepositions were fixed.

gianich73 (Переглянути профіль) 2 вересня 2016 р. 12:50:11

Yes, prepositions are a nightmare. I am glad to know that I am not alone on this ship.
Dankon.

bartlett22183 (Переглянути профіль) 2 вересня 2016 р. 18:21:15

Even within one larger language community prepositions can be a nightmare. For example, among English speakers in various parts of the world, some say "different to," some say "different from," and some say "different than." Yes, I agree that for an international language such as Esperanto, use of prepositions should be fixed insofar as reasonably possible in order to help avoid misunderstanding.

opalo (Переглянути профіль) 2 вересня 2016 р. 23:49:42

But how often does different from/to/than actually cause a misunderstanding?

The general rule is: use the preposition which feels most logical. If you're hesitating, use je.

bartlett22183 (Переглянути профіль) 3 вересня 2016 р. 18:14:37

opalo:But how often does different from/to/than actually cause a misunderstanding?

The general rule is: use the preposition which feels most logical. If you're hesitating, use je.
Certainly for educated native speakers of varying dialects of English, different from/to/than does not cause any problem. It is only that an unfamiliar usage might seem very slightly odd, but there is no misunderstanding. I speculate that something might be similar among native speakers of different dialects of relatively widespread languages such as French.

However, when it comes to an international language such as Esperanto, learned and used by persons of highly dissimilar native tongues, prepositions (and some native languages do not even have prepositions) among their native habits vary so widely that in my estimation there is a genuine risk of misunderstanding if the meanings and specified uses are not set forth well. And as another respondent has remarked, je should only be used as a last resort.

gianich73 (Переглянути профіль) 3 вересня 2016 р. 19:24:16

bartlett22183:Even within one larger language community prepositions can be a nightmare. For example, among English speakers in various parts of the world, some say "different to," some say "different from," and some say "different than." Yes, I agree that for an international language such as Esperanto, use of prepositions should be fixed insofar as reasonably possible in order to help avoid misunderstanding.
Misunderstanding and misuse.
Dankon

gianich73 (Переглянути профіль) 3 вересня 2016 р. 19:28:19

Roch:"Je" is suppose to be used in last resort... when no other can be used, here it's the contrary, too many could be...

Then if someone should pick one, let say to avoid disregard. I'd pick al, alergias al fragoj. Just to avoid je.
But "al" is not correct, because al implies direction of movement. Allergies do not go in any direction. I am confused.

gianich73 (Переглянути профіль) 3 вересня 2016 р. 19:30:22

bartlett22183:
opalo:But how often does different from/to/than actually cause a misunderstanding?

The general rule is: use the preposition which feels most logical. If you're hesitating, use je.
Certainly for educated native speakers of varying dialects of English, different from/to/than does not cause any problem. It is only that an unfamiliar usage might seem very slightly odd, but there is no misunderstanding. I speculate that something might be similar among native speakers of different dialects of relatively widespread languages such as French.

Yes, in Spanish is like that. It sounds funny to me when other Spanish speakers choose a different word or preposition to what I am used, but I still understand in the majority of the cases. In some cases, I may misunderstand.

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