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What does this mean? "Ni parolas inter kvar okuloj."

от david_uk, 16 февраля 2017 г.

Сообщений: 15

Язык: English

david_uk (Показать профиль) 16 февраля 2017 г., 15:47:34

Can anyone translate this for me?

This is something in "Step by step in esperanto", but I can only translate it as "We talk between four eyes", and that makes no sense at all.

nornen (Показать профиль) 16 февраля 2017 г., 16:19:40

We talk in private / tête-à-tête / in confidence / between you and me and the lamppost.

david_uk (Показать профиль) 16 февраля 2017 г., 17:04:00

Thank you.

Can you explain why? Is that a common phrase in some other language?

I have never heard anyone say that in English.

david_uk (Показать профиль) 16 февраля 2017 г., 17:37:48

I have found this, which I think explains it.

http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/117356/is-t...

Apparently this is a German idiom. What it is doing in a book that is supposed to teach Esperanto to English speakers I have no idea.

opajpoaj (Показать профиль) 16 февраля 2017 г., 21:18:06

bartlett22183 (Показать профиль) 16 февраля 2017 г., 21:40:13

This is an example why, in my opinion, speakers / users of an international auxiliary language must take particular, especial care not use use idioms which are common in their native languages. Many idioms are either incomprehensible or subject to major misunderstanding to other people who do not share that language and culture. Say what you mean, mean what you say, and make every effort to avoid idioms common in your own language.

Roch (Показать профиль) 16 февраля 2017 г., 22:13:32

demando.gif
Gestandnis unter vier Augen (released in other English-speaking countries as "Confession Under Four Eyes"), the 1954 Andre Michel West German romantic crime melodrama starring Hildegard Knef, Carl Raddatz, Ivan Desny, Werner Hinz, Franz Schafheitlin, and Stanislav Ledinek

externalImage.png

edit
Oh I see through opajpoaj's link that it already existed by 1921

Vestitor (Показать профиль) 16 февраля 2017 г., 22:20:04

It's a Dutch idiom too (probably in several European languages).

I agree with Bartlett. Speaking in idioms (or inventing them) in Esperanto is a disaster waiting to happen. There is no way you can be sure that another person from a different culture will recognise an idiom's structure and meaning.

And let's face the fact, it's not as if the world is teeming with virtuoso Esperantists waiting to decipher them.

noelekim (Показать профиль) 17 февраля 2017 г., 2:26:30

Tatoeba suggests: "Konfidence inter ni" http://tatoeba.org/epo/sentences/show/1937845

raydpratt (Показать профиль) 19 февраля 2017 г., 17:01:49

Although it was expressed in Esperanto, it is really a piece of local culture, and so I enjoyed learning about it. I think that it is inevitable that Esperanto speakers will share and use some of their local cultural idioms, but I hope that the speakers will not take it for granted that they can be understood by all readers and listeners. I originally interpreted the sentence as meaning that a conversation does not occur without two people. It did not occur to me that a conversation with four eyes is one that excludes a higher number of eyes, i.e, a private conversation.

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