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What does this mean? "Ni parolas inter kvar okuloj."

ya david_uk, 16 Februari 2017

Ujumbe: 15

Lugha: English

david_uk (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Februari 2017 3:47:34 alasiri

Can anyone translate this for me?

This is something in "Step by step in esperanto", but I can only translate it as "We talk between four eyes", and that makes no sense at all.

nornen (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Februari 2017 4:19:40 alasiri

We talk in private / tête-à-tête / in confidence / between you and me and the lamppost.

david_uk (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Februari 2017 5:04:00 alasiri

Thank you.

Can you explain why? Is that a common phrase in some other language?

I have never heard anyone say that in English.

david_uk (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Februari 2017 5:37:48 alasiri

I have found this, which I think explains it.

http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/117356/is-t...

Apparently this is a German idiom. What it is doing in a book that is supposed to teach Esperanto to English speakers I have no idea.

opajpoaj (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Februari 2017 9:18:06 alasiri

bartlett22183 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Februari 2017 9:40:13 alasiri

This is an example why, in my opinion, speakers / users of an international auxiliary language must take particular, especial care not use use idioms which are common in their native languages. Many idioms are either incomprehensible or subject to major misunderstanding to other people who do not share that language and culture. Say what you mean, mean what you say, and make every effort to avoid idioms common in your own language.

Roch (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Februari 2017 10:13:32 alasiri

demando.gif
Gestandnis unter vier Augen (released in other English-speaking countries as "Confession Under Four Eyes"), the 1954 Andre Michel West German romantic crime melodrama starring Hildegard Knef, Carl Raddatz, Ivan Desny, Werner Hinz, Franz Schafheitlin, and Stanislav Ledinek

externalImage.png

edit
Oh I see through opajpoaj's link that it already existed by 1921

Vestitor (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Februari 2017 10:20:04 alasiri

It's a Dutch idiom too (probably in several European languages).

I agree with Bartlett. Speaking in idioms (or inventing them) in Esperanto is a disaster waiting to happen. There is no way you can be sure that another person from a different culture will recognise an idiom's structure and meaning.

And let's face the fact, it's not as if the world is teeming with virtuoso Esperantists waiting to decipher them.

noelekim (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 17 Februari 2017 2:26:30 asubuhi

Tatoeba suggests: "Konfidence inter ni" http://tatoeba.org/epo/sentences/show/1937845

raydpratt (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 19 Februari 2017 5:01:49 alasiri

Although it was expressed in Esperanto, it is really a piece of local culture, and so I enjoyed learning about it. I think that it is inevitable that Esperanto speakers will share and use some of their local cultural idioms, but I hope that the speakers will not take it for granted that they can be understood by all readers and listeners. I originally interpreted the sentence as meaning that a conversation does not occur without two people. It did not occur to me that a conversation with four eyes is one that excludes a higher number of eyes, i.e, a private conversation.

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