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Benson is Benson: the case of ‘injective’

de mkj1887, 22 juin 2017

Messages : 10

Langue: English

mkj1887 (Voir le profil) 22 juin 2017 09:31:32

When it comes to English-Esperanto dictionaries, people often say, with a sigh, “Benson is Benson.” This is a good case in point. As anyone who has ever taken a college course in mathematics knows, ‘injective’ is a synonym, applied to functions, for ‘one-to-one’ (so: an ‘injective function’). Benson, however, not only does not include this meaning, but uses the word in place of the phonetics term ‘implosive’: Neither Wiktionary nor Merriam-Webster agrees with Benson’s use of ‘injective’ to mean ‘implosive’. So, this is a cardinal example of why (sigh) Benson is Benson.

mkj1887 (Voir le profil) 12 juillet 2017 15:14:54

Another spot where Benson is at his worst is ‘moron’. Compare his definition with that of Vikivortaro and Wells:

Vikivortaro: - kreteno

Wells: - idioto, kreteno

Benson: - debilulo [cp “idiot”, “imbecile”, “retard”]

mkj1887 (Voir le profil) 13 juillet 2017 09:43:34

On the other hand Benson at his best saves the day – but just barely - regarding the term ‘efficiency apartment’. This term is not in Benson (that’s right, not in Benson), nor in Wells, nor in Vikivortaro, nor in ReVo, nor in Sonja, nor in Vikipedio. So, what to do? I guess we’ll have to ask, either here or on Esperanto Stack Exchange, how to say it in Esperanto. But wait, aren’t ‘efficiency apartment’ and ‘studio apartment’ synonymous? Looking this up, we find that it DOES exist in Benson – as ‘kombinita apartamento’ – but not in any of the other dictionaries mentioned above. So, kudos to Benson for that.

robbkvasnak (Voir le profil) 13 juillet 2017 15:58:56

"Efficiency apartment" is an example of a fuzzy, American euphamism to sell something. In English fuzzy marketing words abound. English is one of the best languages for selling used cars (or old horses) because in English it is possible to make a lemon (= lousy car) sound like a peach. This is one reason that I NEVER write for pleasure in English. I realized this as a kid since I grew up bilingual (German-English). It is much hard to fudge in German than in English. The Nazis were pretty good at it but never reached the art of advertising English.

mkj1887 (Voir le profil) 13 juillet 2017 23:14:36

robbkvasnak:"Efficiency apartment" is an example of a fuzzy, American euphamism to sell something. In English fuzzy marketing words abound. English is one of the best languages for selling used cars (or old horses) because in English it is possible to make a lemon (= lousy car) sound like a peach. This is one reason that I NEVER write for pleasure in English. I realized this as a kid since I grew up bilingual (German-English). It is much hard to fudge in German than in English. The Nazis were pretty good at it but never reached the art of advertising English.
But what you are saying goes against Thomas Jefferson’s remark that the advertisements are the most honest part of the newspaper. I understand where you coming from, but I’m glad Lewis Carroll didn’t share your philosophy; otherwise, we would be left without ‘Jabberwocky’.

mkj1887 (Voir le profil) 13 juillet 2017 23:16:13

Another case where Benson does well is that of ‘inference’. Both Benson and Vikipedio give ‘inferenco’, which is confirmed by PIV. Wells, Vikivortaro, and ReVo lamely give only ‘konkludo’ as the nearest translation of the meaning. Sonja doesn’t give anything.
(Inference is an ACTION, not a result.)

Vestitor (Voir le profil) 14 juillet 2017 00:39:11

mkj1887:Another spot where Benson is at his worst is ‘moron’. Compare his definition with that of Vikivortaro and Wells:

Vikivortaro: - kreteno

Wells: - idioto, kreteno

Benson: - debilulo [cp “idiot”, “imbecile”, “retard”]
I think Benson's is actually the better word. In Dutch 'Debiel' is a fairly common word and it's in German too as 'Debile'. It means weakness/feebleness and as used implies feebleness of the mind.

'Cretin' may have come to mean a generally moronic person, but originally it's actually a name for a condition caused by a thyroxine deficiency with a side affect of mental retardation.

Personally I think that debilulo is a better word, though both are a bit offensive.

sergejm (Voir le profil) 15 juillet 2017 01:58:01

I agree with Vestitor about Benson's translation of word 'moron'.
Esperanto doesn't have precise words to translate alll nuances of national languange's synonims.
So different dictinaries translates such words differently.
Google translator translate 'moron' to 'stultulo'. It is also correct translation, it loose all nuances, but is known even to beginers.
About translation of 'inference' to 'inferenco'. Benson here simply change ending here. This word exists:
[url="http://vortaro.net/?w=Iŝi#inferenco"]
inferenc/o Φ Ĉiu pensago, per kiu oni iras de unu propozicio, rigardata kiel vera, al alia propozicio: pera, senpera inferenco; inferenco per analogio. ☞ dedukto, indukto.

inferenci (tr) Fari inferencon.
[/url]
This is more special word than 'konkludo'.

mkj1887 (Voir le profil) 20 juillet 2017 10:46:47

Another place where Benson shines is in his translation of ‘threshold’. He offers not only ‘sojlo’, but also ‘limino’ (which is not just a Bensonism, but is confirmed by PIV). Of the other sources I consult (Wells, Vikivortaro, Vikipedio, ReVo, Sonja), Vikipedio and Sonja do not contain this term, and the others all include ‘sojlo’ in their offering, but do not include ‘limino’. So, kudos to Benson.

sergejm (Voir le profil) 20 juillet 2017 13:34:38

"threshold" has two meanings. One is translated "sojlo", the second I would translate "limo", "limino" is a special case of it.

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