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Any international language, or necessarily Esperanto?

de Rogir, 1 de dezembro de 2008

Mensagens: 26

Idioma: English

Rogir (Mostrar o perfil) 1 de dezembro de 2008 23:54:00

Of course all of us share the opinion that an international language is needed in today's world, now more than ever. Just imagine how useful it would be, if one could talk with any stranger or taxi driver in the world!

Probably everyone also thinks that Esperanto is suited to be that international language. Easy, neutral, rich, etc.

But what if another language is elected as international language? That's not an unlikely possibility! Will you learn this language, or even support such a proposal?

Should we, aside from supporting Esperanto, also support the idea that any international language would be better than none? Shouldn't we promise that if any language will be elected by a democratic or intergovernmental method, we will all support it? Even if it's a natural language we don't like?

noroots (Mostrar o perfil) 2 de dezembro de 2008 00:05:49

what important for us? - what our need?
my opinion is be together.

if all of human can understand each other
then there is no war.

i have hope - like all of us.
((i am sorry for my broken english))

ceigered (Mostrar o perfil) 2 de dezembro de 2008 06:37:49

Rogir:But what if another language is elected as international language? That's not an unlikely possibility! Will you learn this language, or even support such a proposal?
I would. In the event of a language becoming earth's 'official' language, I'd hope though that it is easy, allows for incompetencies (e.g. just like a natural language like English or Spanish would) and sounds cool/epic (a.k.a. aesthetically pleasing).

Theoretically, English matches many of these, but it is in no way neutral. Similarly, Spanish and Chinese have their benefits of being widespread and frequently slaughtered by foreigners (mostly anglophiles), but also are in no way neutral. I think Esperanto can reach true neutrality over time as the vocabulary adapts to take in foreign influences, but for now, Esperanto too isn't yet at the stage to 'take over' from English* as the 'world language' - it still needs more speakers (will happen hopefully soon), it needs to continue becoming more natural for foreign speakers (slowly happening with the reduction of some difficult consonants), and most importantly it needs more resources (e.g. more video and animation, more literature that doesn't look like it's from the 80's, more video games (battle for wesnoth is an example)). Finally, it needs to be associated with ninjas... O_o Ok, that's just me being stupid, but the Esperanto pop-culture is a bit underdeveloped, and most talk on these forums revolves around language or neutrality issues - it's good, but we need more discussions about ninjas... o_O

Once those things are fulfilled by Esperanto or any other language, I'm happy to support it!

Damir (Mostrar o perfil) 2 de dezembro de 2008 08:03:26

I think Esperanto could be that language, but doesn't have to be. I think it's very important that the language is simplified.

It's very interesting you say that Rogir--it seems to be a widespread feeling these days on the net. I've heard at least two bloggers and one Youtube rant on how Esperanto needs to be used to talk about everything under the sun rather than just language and Esperanto itself. For this, I've recently come across http://mojose.wordpress.com/ which blogs about cool stuff, whether gadgets or fashion or what-have-you in Esperanto, and also http://www.eventeo.net/web/ which is a news site with articles from all over the world translated into Esperanto. I really hope that gains support--it's a valuable resource and it's got a very spiffy and aesthetically pleasing layout.
If more blogs & sites like this emerge, I think Esperanto will be taken more seriously in the future. I for one will try to strive for it! ridulo.gif

Miland (Mostrar o perfil) 2 de dezembro de 2008 10:48:53

I would want to know which language you were proposing as an alternative, and why you felt that it were better than Esperanto. For example, would it be easier for a larger number of people to learn than Esperanto? I'm not sure that such a language exists. Languages limited to one language group like Interlingua, Folkspraak or Balaibalan are liable to favour one section of humanity at the expense of another. But languages with an international vocabulary may be tougher than Esperanto in other ways. We have here a problem of utility: the greatest good for the greatest number, in this case the least effort of learning (to attain a given level of proficiency) for the greatest number. That may be difficult to assess.

Rohan (Mostrar o perfil) 2 de dezembro de 2008 11:54:49

If a language other than Esperanto were to be "democratically elected" as an international language, I'd certainly attempt to learn it, for not doing so might put me at a disadvantage, but I certainly wouldn't support that language.

If the chosen language were to be a natural one, then I'd be dissatisfied with the lack of neutrality: having experienced what Esperanto has to offer, I wouldn't want to go back by even a step. Also, a natural language would probably bring along its baggage of exceptions and idioms, which are nothing but irksome and unnecessary get-riddables as far as human communication on a global scale is concerned.

However, I don't have such a ready argument against any constructed language that might be chosen. I'm tempted to argue that Esperanto already has a hundred years' worth of literature and usage and so on, but I suppose that if Ido, for example, were to be elected the international language, since people would quickly start learning and using it actively, it could acquire a body of literature as big as Esperanto's in maybe 15 years! So I don't think that argument would hold up. But I still wouldn't support it, if only due to emotional reasons... malgajo.gif

Rogir (Mostrar o perfil) 2 de dezembro de 2008 14:45:25

I'm not saying which language should be elected. I think it is something most of us will eventually have little control over. That's why we must consider the case that others do not share our opinion about the usefulness of Esperanto.

For ceigered: come talk in the humuro section about ninjoj.

Ironchef (Mostrar o perfil) 2 de dezembro de 2008 14:54:16

Now that there are real-time computer translation devices (The US Army have some on laptops in Iraq to translate English-Arabic-English in real-time), and things like Google, do we need an International Language as much today as we did, say 50-100 years ago when people had to really know languages to use them?

I was in Second Life recently and now people are using real-time translation scripts to translate (for example) English to Spanish and back again in real time text-chat. Impressive! Not perfect, but amazing when you think how this works.

I still think Esperanto works because it takes away the political and nationalistic barriers of mother-tongues. Levels the playing field so that everyone is equal when using it (we all had to learn it equally). I think the *need* for it is less, but it holds an important place in world cultural communications and certainly brings people together, samideanoj!

Rogir (Mostrar o perfil) 2 de dezembro de 2008 14:56:59

But for now computer translation still gives the same barrier as foreign language learning: it decreases the content that can be transferred and it makes the other talker seem stupid.

noroots (Mostrar o perfil) 2 de dezembro de 2008 22:41:47

my opinion
if there is a international language,
it be already simple and beatiful.

almost any language is passed by natural selection.
i think, there is no need for discussion.

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