Meddelanden: 10
Språk: English
linkmaster03 (Visa profilen) 18 januari 2009 22:35:47
I find myself pronouncing l from the side of my mouth, if that makes any sense, almost like "ehl". It's also a bit deeper. Is that the correct way, or would it be more "el" as in English?
With the r I find myself tapping the roof of my mouth with my tongue. Sometimes it makes a pause in the word because my tongue gets "stuck". Should I do it like this, roll them, or keep them soft like in English?
Thanks for the help.
Rogir (Visa profilen) 18 januari 2009 23:50:52
ceigered (Visa profilen) 19 januari 2009 03:37:40
In regards to the 'R', roll it but keep it relaxed, as in don't stress or tense up when trying to pronounce it, otherwise it won't sound natural and you'll notice the stuck sound. Another helpful hint* in my opinion is that when you make a 'tr' sound or 'dr' sound, you should start off making the sounds separately with a very short pause in-between (or a schwa), and then trying to close that gap. That way you won't have a kind of 'ch' runoff sound like we have in English when we say 'tram' or 'dream'
![okulumo.gif](/images/smileys/okulumo.gif)
In such a case you might pronounce 'tre' more like 't're', but it sounds more authentic than 'tle' or 'tshle'
![ridego.gif](/images/smileys/ridego.gif)
If you are still having some trouble, listen to some Japanese people speaking their language, as even though their 'R' is a bit like an 'L' (and in music is sometimes pronounced as one), they still have an interesting way of pronouncing it without jamming their tongue or sounding like they are having trouble.
*This is incase you can't make this sound with a rolling 'R' - if you can you're doing better than me
![ridego.gif](/images/smileys/ridego.gif)
ceigered (Visa profilen) 19 januari 2009 13:18:15
黄鸡蛋:Well yes true, but for the most part it sounds close enough to an alveolar tap (one of the more accepted Esperanto 'r's)...ceigered:If you are still having some trouble, listen to some Japanese people speaking their language, as even though their 'R' is a bit like an 'L' (and in music is sometimes pronounced as one), they still have an interesting way of pronouncing it without jamming their tongue or sounding like they are having trouble.Note that Japanese only has the sound "r" that is almost the same as "l" in other languages, but doesn't have "l". (For my ear the sound is "l" instead of "r", though) For that reason they can confuse the two sounds in other languages, and I even saw a Japanese referring to "lernu" as "relnu".
![lango.gif](/images/smileys/lango.gif)
However this brings another slightly unrelated question - what is the Chinese 'R' mean to be (in Pinyin)? I've seen it before but never quite understood how it's pronounced
Matthieu (Visa profilen) 19 januari 2009 17:38:13
And the Chinese R is pronounced like a voiced retroflex fricative consonant (like ĵ, but the tip of the tongue is back in the mouth). It must depend on dialects, but that’s how I (and my Chinese teacher) pronounce it.
linkmaster03 (Visa profilen) 19 januari 2009 18:50:45
Currently I am flapping my r's as Mutusen said. Should I just add a little roll onto that then?
Frankouche (Visa profilen) 19 januari 2009 20:32:26
![rideto.gif](/images/smileys/rideto.gif)
linkmaster03 (Visa profilen) 20 januari 2009 02:46:51
I guess I'm lucky that I had a Greek (I think) friend in first grade teach me how to roll my r's. It even got to a point where I was accidentally rolling my r's in speech. Now is when I need that habit.
![lango.gif](/images/smileys/lango.gif)
ceigered (Visa profilen) 20 januari 2009 07:14:16
黄鸡蛋:Another key difference among the dialects is the tone, but it's out of topic here.Interestingly, one thing I've noticed to be lacking from spoken Esperanto is the lack of tone/pitch - I know that it's not the same as Chinese, but in English we often use tone in a way that is pretty much learnt through extensive use, and the same for German and Dutch and many other languages. However esperanto doesn't seem to have the same use of pitch or tone in speech, which is most likely because it's not really something you can just teach (unless it's like Chinese where tones are used to differentiate words) but anyway the absence makes me a bit sad.
ceigered (Visa profilen) 20 januari 2009 13:01:00
D. Esperado:hi,I actually completely agree with you
i think you have a point in the fact that the tone isn't used in the way it is in english. but do you not think that's because there are no large gatherings of speakers where the tonal system can evolve? i may be wrong but I think tone/pitch is aquired through habits that people learn from others. and because there are few 'others', it won't develop.
i hope that helps.
![lango.gif](/images/smileys/lango.gif)
Oh well, back to the cryo tube...