Aportes: 88
Idioma: English
Rogir (Mostrar perfil) 23 de septiembre de 2009 23:28:30
jchthys:Are not babies and children people?No, what made you think that?
outs (Mostrar perfil) 24 de septiembre de 2009 07:49:40
Oŝo-Jabe:Well, "ĝi" is used for human children and animals. However "li" is the typical pronoun used when someone's sex is unknown.That's not very logical because humains are animals (species H. s. sapiens,Order: Primates,Class: Mammalia)
I never really understood why peoples have a so big problem with that...Rogir:Definitely in French they are ... (and probably the same for Spanish an Italian) That's why I found quite illogical also to use a different pronoun (in esperanto) for a baby/child or an adult.jchthys:Are not babies and children people?No, what made you think that?
ceigered (Mostrar perfil) 24 de septiembre de 2009 09:58:28
outs:That's not very logical because humains are animals (species H. s. sapiens,Order: Primates,Class: Mammalia)To further elaborate
Domain: Eukarya (Includes Animals, Plants, Fungi etc)
Kingdom: Animalia (Animals)
Phylum: Chordata (vertebrates and even some invertebrates)
Superclass: Tetrapoda (all those things with 4 limbs)
Class: Mammilia (anything that makes milk)
Infraclass: Eutheria (anything with a placenta)
Superorder: Euarchontoglires (rats, mice, bunny rabbits, tree shrews)
Order: Primates (monkeys, lemurs, baboons)
Suborder: Haplorrhini (dry nose primates)
Infraorder: Simiiformes (monkeys, apes etc)
Parvorder: Catarrhini (old world monkeys and apes)
Superfamily: Hominoidea (gibbons, orangutans apes etc)
Family: Hominidae (hominoidea missing a few letters and a few gibbons)
Subfamily: Homininae (hominidae said a bit more nasaly)
Tribe: Hominini (Chimps)
Genus: Homo (finally humans)
Mmm, I agree with outs, considering it's a bit of a waste to have a pronoun that can only be used for one genus of animal
jchthys (Mostrar perfil) 24 de septiembre de 2009 14:25:11
ceigered:Because only we humans speak Esperantoouts:That's not very logical because humains are animals (species H. s. sapiens,Order: Primates,Class: Mammalia)Mmm, I agree with outs, considering it's a bit of a waste to have a pronoun that can only be used for one genus of animal
ceigered (Mostrar perfil) 24 de septiembre de 2009 15:48:43
jchthys:Well at the moment at least
Because only we humans speak Esperanto
... They've been teaching Orangutans and Chimps American Sign Language amongst other simple languages constructed for them (e.g. like this project) for a good amount of time now. And Washoe the chimp had about 120 ASL words under her belt which is more than the entire Toki Pona dictionary (of course, that means nothing if she knew 20 words for 'poo').Then again is there such thing as Sign-Esperanto anyway (e.g. 1 word = 1 sign, not just a sign-alphabet)?
Ailanto (Mostrar perfil) 24 de septiembre de 2009 15:58:42
Zafur:There's already things in Esperanto that people seem to like to call sexist.Yeah! A special honorific suffix for women but nothing for men... we're just tossed in with all the unimportant nonfeminine stuff in the universe!
(I'm also a fan of saying "sex" when we mean "sex". Gender is not sex, though it is sometimes related to sex.)
Miland (Mostrar perfil) 24 de septiembre de 2009 19:40:51
ceigered:'tiam ĉi ridbrakumeti'What does that mean? 'Then this smiling-handshaking'?
I think I understand a little better now the expression 'that sounds Chinese'!
Zafur (Mostrar perfil) 24 de septiembre de 2009 20:34:39
Ailanto:Inorite?Zafur:There's already things in Esperanto that people seem to like to call sexist.Yeah! A special honorific suffix for women but nothing for men... we're just tossed in with all the unimportant nonfeminine stuff in the universe!
(I'm also a fan of saying "sex" when we mean "sex". Gender is not sex, though it is sometimes related to sex.)
And males get a prefix but females don't... Hm.
(I know that gender isn't sex.
Perhaps more correct to my intentions was "with unstated sex(es) or gender(s) (or lack thereof)" and "that has any implied sex(es)or gender(s) (or lack thereof)"
Completely open to all scenarios.
I just tend to use gender as shorthand for issues like these because to have a gender, generally one has to have a sex... Until we get AI working better, at least.
... And even then...)Edit: Or would oni fit that definition anyways?