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"Freedom of" vs "freedom from"

di Iĉo, 09 ottobre 2009

Messaggi: 13

Lingua: English

Iĉo (Mostra il profilo) 09 ottobre 2009 07:03:53

Normally the fact that "de" can be translated as "of" and "from" is not a problem, but I came across an issue with it that I was unable to resolve.

I wanted to say "Don't forget: freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism" (ie. Yes, you're allowed to say whatever you like, but by the same token, we're allowed to criticise it without it being "an attack on your free speech")

The best I could do was:

Mi:Ne forgesu: libereco de parolado ne egalas al rajto neniam vidi vian argumenton kontraŭita.
Libereco de parolado = freedom of speech (or maybe "freedom FROM speech", whatever that would mean)
Libereco de kritiko = freedom from criticism ... also, freedom OF criticism.

My instinct tells me that freedom of something should be libereco pri io and freedom from something should be with de but unfortunately "libereco de parolado" would always be understood as "freedom of speech" rather than "freedom from speech".

I thought of using el for "from", but I realised that libereco el io sounds more like "freedom (derived) from something" than freedom from it. I also thought about for de and ekde but both seem unsatisfactory for different reasons.

How do we say something like "freedom from persecution"?

tommjames (Mostra il profilo) 09 ottobre 2009 09:39:35

I have occasionally seen kontraŭ used alongside libereco to resolve the ambiguity, and I think it works well. In which case your "Don't forget: freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism" could be translated as:

Ne forgesu: libero de parolo ne implicas liberon kontraŭ kritiko.

You can add ad and ec suffixes according to your taste, but I think the above would be well understood.

Iĉo (Mostra il profilo) 09 ottobre 2009 12:10:56

tommjames:I have occasionally seen kontraŭ used alongside libereco to resolve the ambiguity, and I think it works well. In which case your "Don't forget: freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism" could be translated as:

Ne forgesu: libero de parolo ne implicas liberon kontraŭ kritiko.

You can add ad and ec suffixes according to your taste, but I think the above would be well understood.
Thank you. That's perfect! I don't know why I didn't think of that.

LyzTyphone (Mostra il profilo) 10 ottobre 2009 01:46:03

By reading the ReVo examples, I suspect "libera de" to be "free from". So I will phrase it as:

"Ne forgesu: libero por paroli ne egalas al libero de kritiko."

But I do think "kontraux" is clearer in its meaning

Miland (Mostra il profilo) 10 ottobre 2009 11:20:52

Kontraŭ is usually used for a relationship of opposition or an exchange, as in paying a bill. The difficulty is retaining the idiomatic double meaning of 'freedom'. If we let it go, we could have for example Libereco paroli ne enhavas protekton kontraŭ kritiko. We might also include nepre or necese before enhavas, if we were trying to give advice rather than create a proverb.

mnlg (Mostra il profilo) 12 ottobre 2009 21:08:12

Yet another variation,

Libereco de parolo ne implicas malpermeson de argumentado.

russ (Mostra il profilo) 14 ottobre 2009 13:57:25

Or express it differently to sidestep the "freedom + preposition + noun" issue... ridulo.gif

Libero paroli ne signifas liberon ne esti kritikata.

ceigered (Mostra il profilo) 14 ottobre 2009 15:33:35

How about 'libero je kritiko'?

or then there's always 'sen'.

Libero de parolo ne signifas ke oni estas libere sen kritiko
or
Libera parolo ne signifas esto libere sen kritiko
or
Libera parolo ne signifas parolon sen libera kritiko.

or something like that. In fact just take the 3 above and mix and match them to your heart's content (I like the last one personally).

horsto (Mostra il profilo) 14 ottobre 2009 15:53:27

I just found out that there is no article for "freedom of speech" in vikipedio.

CindyS (Mostra il profilo) 03 novembre 2009 03:28:08

Something must be done!

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