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"at" vs. "to"

nshepperd,2010年1月6日の

メッセージ: 7

言語: English

nshepperd (プロフィールを表示) 2010年1月6日 12:30:21

In english we can throw an object "at" a person (in a violent manner) or "to" someone (in a more friendly manner). In esperanto, we only have "al", meaning (approximately) both these words. So how should we say "to throw at" in this case?

dimichxp (プロフィールを表示) 2010年1月6日 12:52:40

I guess you can ĵeti 'en ulon', which can be interpreted to be more violent that 'al ulo'. You can even use 'ĉe ulon', which is not usual but logical and correct. But as non-native english speaker i don't feel any real difference between all these variants, so i really suggest to express force some other way (by adverb, or affix) so everyone can understand what you mean.

Rohan (プロフィールを表示) 2010年1月6日 13:28:39

When you say 'ĵeti ion al iu/io', the context will render the intended meaning clear in a majority of cases, I think.

If the phrase remains ambiguous despite the context, then the best recourse would probably be to use an adverb, or perhaps to modify the verb slightly (e.g. ĵetpasi).

ceigered (プロフィールを表示) 2010年1月6日 14:28:48

I think the simplest response I can come up with is that when you mean "at", use "-en" (towards suffix) at the end of the person's name, e.g. Mi ĵetis la pilkon Johanen (I threw the ball towards/at Johan (at in the English sentence mean's "towards" in the sense that the ball is thrown to end up at their location).

When you mean "to", say "al". This is because you are giving the ball to them. You're expecting them to receive it. -en however shows that you're throwing it at their general direction, meaning you're not intending for them to receive it lango.gif

(outside of violent contexts, if we're talking about something like cricket, I'd say "Gilkristo boŭlis la pilkon Straŭsen". The logic of having Gilchrist as bowler here may be debatable, and boŭli isn't a proper word (bovli doesn't sound right, unless we're throwing good quality china), but hopefully you get what I mean)

So:
(Name)+en = "at (directed at, towards)"
al +(Name) = "to (giving to)"

This is the first time I've thought about this distinction outside of English so this interests me too! ridulo.gif

horsto (プロフィールを表示) 2010年1月6日 18:29:37

ĵeti ion al iu only says that you throw something in the direction of somebody, that's right. But if you want to say throw at you could use ĵeti sur iun, that expresses that the thrown object hits the person.

nshepperd (プロフィールを表示) 2010年1月9日 5:31:06

Ah, thank you ceigered, I think you are correct. Ĵeti io-en seems to have the right sort of meaning to me. Not 'to' but 'in the direction of' or even 'through' lango.gif. Hooray!

ceigered (プロフィールを表示) 2010年1月9日 8:25:41

No probs rideto.gif

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