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Accusative with compound?

de Halcyon, 16 de fevereiro de 2010

Mensagens: 38

Idioma: English

Halcyon (Mostrar o perfil) 16 de fevereiro de 2010 19:23:08

I've been lurking here for a while but this is my first post!

Maybe compound isn't the correct term but essentially my question is this: When the direct object is a noun phrase like "Doktoro Esperanto", how do i mark it with the accusative?

Doktoron Esperanton? Doktoro Esperanton?

Dankon por via helpo!

darkweasel (Mostrar o perfil) 16 de fevereiro de 2010 19:25:05

According to PMEG (Identiga priskribo), it's Doktoron Esperanto.

ceigered (Mostrar o perfil) 17 de fevereiro de 2010 16:54:52

Think about it like this - you're talking about the Doctor, who is coincidentally called "Esperanto" - the most important part is that he's a doctor.

Prezidento Obama = Prezidenton Obama (coz we're talking about the President. Although, in this case "obama" is just as easy to understand by context, but then you'd write "Obama, La Prezidento" or something like that).

(although despite my attempt to build on what Darkweasel said, I have to admit until he gave that answer I hadn't ever really thought about it much. Then again, I can't remember the last time I saw the Doctor. Not even when I supposedly got swine flu lango.gif)

Halcyon (Mostrar o perfil) 18 de fevereiro de 2010 15:57:04

Thanks to both of your for your answers which both made a lot of sense. Next time i'll check PMEG first. lango.gif

Roberto12 (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de fevereiro de 2010 15:47:26

I thought this thread would be about actual compounds rather than apposition. So let me change the topic lango.gif

Does the word hundmanĝanto mean "one who's eating dog" or "a dog that's eating" ?

(I think it's the first.)

darkweasel (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de fevereiro de 2010 15:51:25

Roberto12:I thought this thread would be about actual compounds rather than apposition. So let me change the topic lango.gif

Does the word hundmanĝanto mean "one who's eating dog" or "a dog that's eating" ?

(I think it's the first.)
You're right, it's the first, as the "basic word" is in the end of a compound. An eating dog would be a manĝanta hundo.

tommjames (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de fevereiro de 2010 16:00:41

I'd translate it as a person who is "dog-eating". In terms of word construction this would be a similar concept to the word fiŝkapti, which shows the idea of attempting to catch fish (fishing), rather than actually catching fish (which would effectively make "fiŝ" the object.. not possible in compounds).

If the person who came up with this word intended it to mean a person who is eating a dog, the word is wrong. Prefixing a verb with a noun indicates the manner in which they do the action, not the actual object of the action.

Roberto12 (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de fevereiro de 2010 16:20:14

I've realised, uloj, that that was a lame example. Here's a better one:

Reĝmortigisto ("King-killer")

Is this someone who kills kings, or someone who kills on behalf of a king ?

darkweasel (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de fevereiro de 2010 16:30:17

tommjames:
If the person who came up with this word intended it to mean a person who is eating a dog, the word is wrong. Prepending a verb with a noun indicates the manner in which they do the action, not the actual object of the action.
After a bit of discussion on IRC about this, it seems that we both agree that hundmanĝanto is a fine word but does not HAVE to mean (in practice it does mean) somebody who is eating a dog, it could also mean somebody who eats like a dog, or something else. See the linked discussion for more information.

A reĝmortigisto is somebody who kills a king, in probably most cases.

tommjames (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de fevereiro de 2010 16:33:43

Heh, thanks for posting that without my consent shoko.gif rideto.gif

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