Mensagens: 20
Idioma: English
richardhall (Mostrar o perfil) 17 de abril de 2007 12:28:59
erinja:"Ci" is still used occasionally in poetry and prayers. It is used about as often as "thou" in English.I suppose that's my point. "Thou" was once commonly used in English -- and still is in my Yorkshire homeland.
Whether the usage of "ci" was intended by Zamenhof for poetic and religious use, I have no clue. But to me, that would be irrelevant. I just don't believe that any language can be 'pickled in aspic' and preserved unchanging. Unless it isn't used.
Kwekubo (Mostrar o perfil) 17 de abril de 2007 17:44:41
richardhall:Just one ferinstance: whatever happened to "ci"?Nothing happened. It just was never in everyday use, and wasn't intended to be - for example, Rule 6 (pronouns) in the Unua Libro makes no mention of it. The only mention in the Fundamento is in Exercise 16 from the Ekzercaro, which says, "Anstataŭ 'ci' oni uzas ordinare 'vi'." Not much to go on!
In practice I've only ever seen the word used a couple of times, and I don't really understand why it was used in those cases - perhaps because the speaker's native language makes the distinction between "you" and "thou" and he or she thought Esperanto should do the same.
There's some more detailed information about "ci" available in PMEG.
richardhall (Mostrar o perfil) 17 de abril de 2007 18:01:35
Kwekubo (Mostrar o perfil) 17 de abril de 2007 18:13:02
richardhall:The specific instance of "ci" may have been ill-chosen, but my point still stands I think. I'm just saying that any language being used by a living community will change, and I don't see any reason to suppose that Esperanto will be any different. I'm not arguing for change, I'm not suggesting that there is anything that needs to change. Just that change is inevitable.Sure! And Esperanto has changed considerably from how it was in the 1880s and '90s. But a lot of that change is due to the language itself being so flexible. A lot of the ways we say things now were entirely grammatical right from the start, but they weren't used in the early years - people just said things slightly differently. Like how "jarcento" has universally replaced "centjaro" for "century".
I must admit however that I side with waxle in tending to favour ĥ-style words.
I suppose my view is that change is fine as long as it doesn't compromise the basic building blocks of the language. 
tiberius (Mostrar o perfil) 17 de abril de 2007 22:44:28
Normaly I'm all for dialectic drifting, but isn't the point of Esperanto to be one commone language? Its one thing to let a natural language take its course, and I understand that change is inevitable, but we shouldn't purposly allow Esperant diverge too badly given it's what its intended to do.
I think as long as Esperanto remains a auxiliary language (only 2nd language speakers), it won't dialectize too fast. The internet helps a lot too.
Also, I love "Ci". Chiefly because, as I am from Texas, I am used to distinguishing 2nd person singular "you" and 2nd person plural "Y'all"
erinja (Mostrar o perfil) 18 de abril de 2007 00:08:14
tiberius:but we shouldn't purposly allow Esperant diverge too badly given it's what its intended to do.Unfortunately for you, if you don't want too much divergence, I guess you shouldn't use "ci" very much, since it hasn't been in wide use - ever.
Also, I love "Ci". Chiefly because, as I am from Texas, I am used to distinguishing 2nd person singular "you" and 2nd person plural "Y'all"
tiberius (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de abril de 2007 23:48:01
bye-bye ci... 
AlexandreMsx (Mostrar o perfil) 23 de dezembro de 2009 13:51:12
tiberius:I suppose I see your point...Usually I use y'all to differ from you. I never heard it was used somewhere I thought I used it as a stuborn english student.
Is Y'all used all over the Texas? 
ceigered (Mostrar o perfil) 23 de dezembro de 2009 14:28:54
AlexandreMsx:Mostly in the US (in general, but I presume it's more of a "southern" thing) but because US and UK media are quite predominate in the English speaking world, most other places have people who say "y'all" or "you all" as well (I believe "y'all" is the American plural "you", where "youse/yez" (etc) is the more British plural "you", and everyone else uses something in between and just "you", like we Aussies).tiberius:I suppose I see your point...Usually I use y'all to differ from you. I never heard it was used somewhere I thought I used it as a stuborn english student.
Oŝo-Jabe (Mostrar o perfil) 23 de dezembro de 2009 19:08:09
tiberius:I suppose I see your point...Well, you can always clarify "vi" with nouns or adjectives. "Vi ĉiuj," "vi amiko," "vi kara," "vi sinjor(in)o" are all acceptable instead of just "vi" (which will be what you use most of the time.)