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Noun vs adjective

от ailebol, 8 июня 2010 г.

Сообщений: 22

Язык: English

ailebol (Показать профиль) 8 июня 2010 г., 14:17:16

I have a problem in Esperanto that is not a concern in English speech.

1. “according to the world clock, “it is ……
2. “according to the English language,“ it is …….

Traduku.net translates these as:

1) Laux la mondo horlogxo ….
2) Laux la angla lingvo …

If this is true, then mondo is a noun and English is an adjective. Don’t they both modify their nouns?

Aslan (Показать профиль) 8 июня 2010 г., 14:29:19

Is it "mondo horlogxo" or "mondohorlogxo"? My understanding is that the former can never be correct. If one wishes to write a compound noun, they are concatenated together rather than being written as separate words.

Ironchef (Показать профиль) 8 июня 2010 г., 15:20:11

Aslan:Is it "mondo horloĝo" or "mondohorloĝo"? My understanding is that the former can never be correct. If one wishes to write a compound noun, they are concatenated together rather than being written as separate words.
Monda horloĝo would be better. Mondhorloĝo or mond-horloĝo would be my preference. Kellerman seems to support this in her 1920 "A Complete Grammar of Esperanto"

I think it's preferred generally to remove the ending of the description element in the compound unless it inhibits pronunciation.

Mondo Horloĝo >>> mondhorloĝo
Vespero Manĝo >>> vespermanĝo
Danco Muziko >>> dancmuziko

erinja (Показать профиль) 8 июня 2010 г., 16:55:56

Ironchef:
Mondo Horloĝo >>> mondhorloĝo
Vespero Manĝo >>> vespermanĝo
Danco Muziko >>> dancmuziko
A clarification on this: "mondo horloĝo", "vespero manĝo" and "danco muziko" are incorrect by definition because in Esperanto, a noun cannot describe a noun.

The correct forms would be "monda horloĝo", "vespera manĝo" and "danca muziko", or else a hyphenated (mondo-horloĝo) or compound (mondhorloĝo/mondohorloĝo) form.

Traduku.net was wrong in its translation, but then again, automatic translators are seldom high-quality. Even Google Translate is liable to make translation errors, even though it has a lot of money and work behind it.

ailebol (Показать профиль) 8 июня 2010 г., 20:49:59

Erinja:

I like your explanation of my question.
So, English in the context “English Language” is an adjective.
My son, however, says that in the first example – World Clock is the name of a clock like Shea Stadium is the name of a stadium. Therefore World and Shea are nouns and that the names are proper nouns. Is he correct?

Ailebol

Evildela (Показать профиль) 8 июня 2010 г., 21:36:22

ailebol:Erinja:

I like your explanation of my question.
So, English in the context “English Language” is an adjective.
My son, however, says that in the first example – World Clock is the name of a clock like Shea Stadium is the name of a stadium. Therefore World and Shea are nouns and that the names are proper nouns. Is he correct?

Ailebol
But don't forget that 'world' describes clock (thus adjective), what type of clock is it? It’s a 'world' clock, just like you could say that it’s a 'brown' clock.

Donniedillon (Показать профиль) 8 июня 2010 г., 23:37:53

One way to differentiate would be to say "la Mondo Horloĝo". Adding the "la" to the sentence makes it clear that it is not just any world clock but the World Clock.

erinja (Показать профиль) 9 июня 2010 г., 0:11:26

Donniedillon:One way to differentiate would be to say "la Mondo Horloĝo". Adding the "la" to the sentence makes it clear that it is not just any world clock but the World Clock.
Sorry, but this is wrong too.

In English, when we give something's name and its identity, we often put the name first and then the identity. George Washington University, Shea Stadium, Hudson River, Main Street.

In Esperanto, the convention is either to hyphenate (Washington-Universitato, Shea-stadiono, Hudson-rivero, Main-strato), OR to put the identity first and then the name (Universitato Washington, Stadiono Shea, Rivero Hudson, Strato Main)

The second is more common. The word "la" is unnecessary in any case.

In some languages they like to use quotes for the name (University "George Washington", Stadium "Shea") but that usually only applies to names of institutions.

Donniedillon (Показать профиль) 9 июня 2010 г., 2:03:36

Sorry to try and sneak and Anglacism in on ya okulumo.gif

ceigered (Показать профиль) 9 июня 2010 г., 4:47:08

erinja:The second is more common.
Might just be me, but "Horlogxo Mondo" feels a bit weird to me, given that clocks aren't much of a place you can visit rido.gif. So would this still be possible, or is this more a naming convention for things like places of interest over world-time?

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