Messaggi: 28
Lingua: English
biguglydave (Mostra il profilo) 03 febbraio 2011 22:53:20
I think I understand that you can simply use “esti” in place of the English “there is/are” to affirm existence or presence. Is this not true? For example, in one of the Star Trek movies, First Engineer Scott transports two whales into the spaceship and reports back to Admiral Kirk saying, “Admiral, there be whales here!”. If Scotty were speaking Esperanto, would he need to use “jen”, saying ,"Admiralo, jen estas balenoj”. In this particular case, why wouldn't he use “ĉi tie” to affirm their presence alongside of him in the transporter room instead of “jen”? Why would he need to use "jen" at all?
Finally, I saw an example showing one can say “Jen estas la libro!” if you are handing someone a book. I'm still not sure what meaning “jen” adds in this case, and what grammatical part of speech it represents; e.g. verb, adverb, etc.
Thanks!
Miland (Mostra il profilo) 03 febbraio 2011 23:13:07
Here's (= Jen!) a relevant page from PMEG - concerning Scotty's remark, see the sentence just before the second box.
You can use estas to mean "there is", but Jen! - "Look!" has greater emphasis.
Navictor (Mostra il profilo) 03 febbraio 2011 23:17:07
C
Chainy (Mostra il profilo) 04 febbraio 2011 00:05:03
biguglydave:I have "jen" frustration.The funny thing is that you kind of use the word correctly right there in that little sentence. You can use 'jen' as a way of bringing attention to something. And then you go on to give more details about it - in your case a 'frustration'
That PMEG page shows some good examples.
T0dd (Mostra il profilo) 04 febbraio 2011 00:49:21
That was an important Esperanto moment for me.
Balbutanto (Mostra il profilo) 04 febbraio 2011 02:56:09
Miland:Jen is an interjection meaning "Here is" or "This is". Jen estas is also used. I believe the French ici may be equivalent.Voici, in fact.
erinja (Mostra il profilo) 04 febbraio 2011 03:26:36
вот мой дом = jen mia domo
It definitely works like the Italian word "ecco".
Eccolo! - Jen ĝi!
ecco la mia casa - jen mia domo
It can work like the French word voici, and also like the French word voilà.
voilà ma maison = jen mia domo
darkweasel (Mostra il profilo) 04 febbraio 2011 06:02:53
Navictor:"Jen" signifas "ĉi tie estas", "he aquí"(español), pro tio vi ne devus diri "jen estas balenoj", vi nur diru "jen balenoj". Ne diru "jen estas la libro", anstataŭ tio vi diru "jen la libro" aŭ "jen libro". Oni inventis tiun vorton por ŝpari la pli longan frazon "ĉi tie estas", same kiel oni inventis la vorton "better", por ne diri "more good".Not really.
C
Jen is a word used to draw attention to something.
The phrase that follows jen can have a verb: jen ŝi foriras. However, if it's esti, it's often only implied. So instead of jen estas libro you can say just jen libro.
ceigered (Mostra il profilo) 04 febbraio 2011 10:14:39
"Well, looky 'ere, a (something of attention)". Its like saying "rigardu" without commanding that the other party must actually use their eyes, and draws something to someone's attention.
I actually thought you were ysing "jen" on purpose when I saw this topic haha!
biguglydave (Mostra il profilo) 04 febbraio 2011 10:45:26
darkweasel:Thanks to all for the clarifications! There was a part of each response that helped me.
Jen is a word used to draw attention to something.
The phrase that follows jen can have a verb: jen ŝi foriras. However, if it's esti, it's often only implied. So instead of jen estas libro you can say just jen libro.
In retrospect, I really had six questions. Sometimes it's difficult to form a question about what you DON'T know. Darkweasel's examples managed to define my questions and answer them, as follows:
1) Why do I see "jen" used sometimes with "esti",
2) other times without "esti",
3) most of the time "esti" without "jen",
4) "jen" with other verbs; (e.g. "foriri)?
5) What is the variation in meaning between the 4 uses above?
6) What grammatical part of speech is "jen" that is consistent across the above uses?
Even now, I'm not sure than I could translate the phrase "jen ŝi foriras" into English? Perhaps, "Look, she's leaving", where the word "look" represents the English equivalent of "jen"; i.e. "look" as an attention word rather than as a physical act of visualization/seeing/looking.
Any comments on this?