Поруке: 61
Језик: English
johmue (Погледати профил) 03. март 2011. 07.13.49
sudanglo:OK folks. So my question now is is what are the connotations of 'mava'. Is this neologism closer to 'evil'. Can a haircut be 'mava'?"mava" does not have any connotation, beacuse nobody is using it. In the actual language usage it simply does not exist and can thus not have a connotation.
The vast majority of Esperanto speakers wouldn't even understand it.
ceigered (Погледати профил) 03. март 2011. 09.14.38
johmue:Well that's a tad extreme, and I don't think the average EO speaker is so fragile that a word they've barely come across would completely ruin a conversation. Worst comes to worst they can just say "kio estas "mava?" (although a flowing conversationalist would probably thus want to avoid mava if there's a chance of a break in the conversation, but for me that'd be boring).sudanglo:OK folks. So my question now is is what are the connotations of 'mava'. Is this neologism closer to 'evil'. Can a haircut be 'mava'?"mava" does not have any connotation, beacuse nobody is using it. In the actual language usage it simply does not exist and can thus not have a connotation.
The vast majority of Esperanto speakers wouldn't even understand it.
Not to mention, we all know what mava is, and mava was one of the first words I learnt in EO (not as in within the first 10 words, more like within the first 200 words). Perhaps though there's a reason like that, e.g. mava being in the vortaro here.
Nonetheless, it clearly has a presence here on the net, which generally reflects real life to some degree, and just because a whole bunch of people aren't using it doesn't mean everyone isn't using it:
http://lingvakritiko.com/2007/10/15/ligo-al-la-ese...
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mava
BTW On the original topic, could "misa" be worked in anywhere? I heard this as an alternative to both malbona AND mava, and while I think that's as necessary as a kick up the bum (e.g. not necessary at all), nor logical meaning-wise, I can imagine a use of "misa" for something akin to "bad" or "wrong" as in "misdirected". E.g. a good kid goes down a bad path in life due to a silly mistake or influence.
johmue (Погледати профил) 03. март 2011. 10.04.04
ceigered:Nonetheless, it [mava] clearly has a presence here on the net, which generally reflects real life to some degree, and just because a whole bunch of people aren't using it doesn't mean everyone isn't using it:I never heard or read "mava" in real life. Only in discussions about mal-words. Even there "mava" is a rare example.
Yesterday I asked a friend of mine, who is an experienced and fluent Esperanto speaker. He did not know "mava".
ceigered (Погледати профил) 03. март 2011. 10.20.54
I honestly can't speak about real life conversation though as I have never really had a true real life EO conversation apart from "kiel vi fartas".
But the fact is the word's in some dictionaries, has been used before and can be easily defined in a matter of seconds mid conversation ("la nemalvorta versio de "malbona""). That's better than making up words for the sake of it.
Anyway, I suspect it's largely to do with style, and personal choice. Each person tends to stick to a certain vocabulary style, even if words are archaic or rarely used in modern conversation, based on personality traits and beliefs. Most experienced Esperantists probably choose to speak "Normal Esperanto", and try to reflect what is most readily understandable to the biggest group of people, and what reflects the closest thing to standard usage (ekz. the speech of Erinja, etc). Thus for them, even if mava was a "good" idea for the language, they wouldn't bother, since it does not reflect the reality for Esperanto.
On the other hand, someone more anarchistic, and having more apathy towards the language like myself might honestly not care too much either way (I simply enjoy being the devil's advocate, I think I was dropped on my head too much as a child).
johmue (Погледати профил) 03. март 2011. 10.34.38
ceigered:Until very recently I've never heard of the word "intercrystalline" (I found out what it meant when I was proof-reading some definitions and found that someone had given it the wrong one). That doesn't really mean it never existed.Have you heard or been using a synonym for intercrystalline before you heard intercrystalline for the first time?
That's the case for "mava". People do say "malbona" but they don't say "mava".
I honestly can't speak about real life conversation though as I have never really had a true real life EO conversation apart from "kiel vi fartas".I can tell you from my experience of years of vast esperanto speaking in different circumstances with totally different people, that I never, not even once, came across "mava".
There are other examples that appear from time to time: "kurta", "liva", even "olda" (but only as "oldulo"), but "mava" ... not even once.
sudanglo (Погледати профил) 03. март 2011. 11.34.33
Ceiger, I find it slightly shocking that you have never had a real life conversation in Esperanto.
When I was your age I had a fellow-student friend (anglalingvano) with whom I always spoke Esperanto, to such an extent that one morning after we had known each other a couple of years and I had occasion to read something out of a newspaper to him, he fell about laughing as he was hit with the sudden realisation that he had never before heard my accent in English. I remember the incident well.
Sadly. some years later, he went to Japan and we lost touch. I wonder from time to time if he is still alive - I know his health was poor when we last had contact.
If anyone reading this has ever encountered an English Esperantist by the name of Michael Lamb, he would be in his late sixties or early seventies now, perhaps they would be kind enough to PM me.
ceigered (Погледати профил) 03. март 2011. 12.52.21
sudanglo:Ceiger, I find it slightly shocking that you have never had a real life conversation in Esperanto.Well I technically have but the guy I talked to doesn't really like to speak in Esperanto too much. But occasionally I switch from EN to EO mid conversation just to spice things up, but it can't really be counted since there's rarely any long conversation about diverse topics.
Australians aren't exactly known for our EO usage though, and most are on the east side of the continent
, so without strong dedication which uni studies sort of prohibit, my conversational esperanto is "on hold". 
erinja (Погледати профил) 03. март 2011. 14.07.40
Up until I started reading essays on the topic of neologisms, I wouldn't have understood it. It wouldn't necessarily be obvious in context. If you told someone that they had a "mava" haircut, that could mean any number of things, and it would be hard to tell which one.
T0dd (Погледати профил) 03. март 2011. 15.06.57
I've heard LIVA used a few times. I've heard KURTA, but only in the compound KURTONDO. And of course OLDULO is in common use.
I've never heard POKA in conversation.
I've heard APERTI once or twice.
ceigered (Погледати профил) 04. март 2011. 02.33.04