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Noob questions.

від yodle, 27 березня 2011 р.

Повідомлення: 27

Мова: English

Roberto12 (Переглянути профіль) 29 березня 2011 р. 08:25:20

yodle:I've got my "ĥ" down pat but I still cant trill my R's.
I had a little chuckle when I read this, because you don't actually need to say Ĥ (because every Ĥ-word has an alternative), whereas you can actually get away with non-trilling Rs. rideto.gif

darkweasel (Переглянути профіль) 29 березня 2011 р. 09:15:44

It's not true that every hh-word has an alternative - only most do, but for example Lihhtenshtejno doesn't.

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 29 березня 2011 р. 09:35:03

And Eĥo. And Ĥoro. And Ĥolero. And Ĥoralo

And Robert, when you go to the theatre would you rather sit in row 'K' or row 'Ĥ'

johmue (Переглянути профіль) 29 березня 2011 р. 10:33:11

sudanglo:And Eĥo. And Ĥoro. And Ĥolero. And Ĥoralo

And Robert, when you go to the theatre would you rather sit in row 'K' or row 'Ĥ'
"Hxoro" has the alternative "koruso".

ceigered (Переглянути профіль) 29 березня 2011 р. 10:40:56

Rohan:A piece of trilly trivia: I read somewhere that the French R used to be pronounced as an alveolar trill (Spanish-style), but that changed thanks to some French king who had a cleft palate and hence couldn't produce an alveolar trill. He compensated by making a uvular trill instead, and this began to be imitated, with the effects on Standard French being what we see today.
I head this too, but rather that the alveolar R was common up until relatively recently, and started getting replaced since around the 1700's. Amazing how quickly a fad can catch on! Although, English has the same thing, like we rarely say "wh" as "hŭ" but just "ŭ/h", so probably not as amazing as I think it is ridulo.gif

German also seems to have recently picked up that guttural R, going off of something Theodor Siebs said. And English had it strangely enough in Northumberland (may still have it). Then again the modern English R often seems like a merger between an alveolar, guttural, and velarised (ala Irish broad consonants) R.

I wouldn't know about the king part though. A lot of linguistic oddities in Europe seem to be blamed on kings who can't speak their own languages, like the tale about the Castilian soft "c"/"z" sound rido.gif

Roberto12 (Переглянути профіль) 29 березня 2011 р. 14:30:34

I looked up every Ĥ-word I could find last year and they all had alternatives.

Vikipedio:Liĥtenŝtejno aŭ Liktenŝtejno estas memstara ŝtateto situanta inter la svisa kantono St. Gallen kaj la aŭstria provinco Vorarlberg, kiu disigas ĝin de Tirolo.
sudanglo:And Eĥo. [...] And Ĥolero. And Ĥoralo
Ekoi/ekoo; Kolerao.

I can't find an alternative for the last one, but it looks so obscure as to be practically irrelevant.
And Robert, when you go to the theatre would you rather sit in row 'K' or row 'Ĥ'
I'll take row K! rideto.gif

darkweasel (Переглянути профіль) 29 березня 2011 р. 15:43:22

Liktenŝtejno seems to be a Wikipedia invention. It gets only 119 hits on Google, compared to 103000 for Liĥtenŝtejno.

According to PMEG: Bazaj elparolaj reguloj, ekoo is not in wide use. The same applies for ĉeko instead of ĉeĥo (after all, ĉeko is also "a check").

ceigered (Переглянути профіль) 29 березня 2011 р. 15:46:25

I was going to say, Likenŝtejno seems like a non-official thing, as are most ĥ alternatives, since there already are ĥ alternatives in normal esperanto, it makes it a more viable area of the language to push some amount of reform.

RE which row, whichever one is 2-5 rows from the back wall of the cinema room okulumo.gif (Australians seem pretty bad in that regard, as we never really sit in the seats we're meant to according to our tickets, let alone notice that we even had set positions)

darkweasel (Переглянути профіль) 29 березня 2011 р. 16:09:59

ceigered:I was going to say, Likenŝtejno seems like a non-official thing
At least the Listo de Rekomendataj Landnomoj has only Liĥtenŝtejno.

ceigered:as are most ĥ alternatives
There are 34 official roots with Ĥ. 14 of them have RĤ, and these automatically have parallel RK forms according to some Akademio decision I can't find now. I guess that most of the other official Ĥ roots have official parallel K forms as well.

erinja (Переглянути профіль) 29 березня 2011 р. 17:01:51

ceigered:RE which row, whichever one is 2-5 rows from the back wall of the cinema room okulumo.gif (Australians seem pretty bad in that regard, as we never really sit in the seats we're meant to according to our tickets, let alone notice that we even had set positions)
Sounds like Australians would do just fine in the US; cinemas here don't even have assigned seating, you just go to any open seat.

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